The MEANEST TOWN IN AMERICA: Fake Prom for Lesbian Student?

UPDATE: More photos from the prom and more on La Figa

Constance McMillen’s prom was this weekend. And the town of Fulton, Mississippi is getting a reputation as the meanest place in America.

Last month a federal judge in Mississippi ruled that Constance McMillen’s rights were violated when she was not allowed to wear a tuxedo and bring her girlfriend to the Itawamba Agricultural High School prom. Judge Davidson would hold a trial on the matter later and stopped short of requiring the school board to reinstate the prom, as parents had already formulated their plan to hold a private prom.

There was a private prom all right. On Wendesday, the school’s attorney announced that “the prom” was to be held at the Fulton Country Club on Friday. Constance, her date and seven other kids showed up.

Because the “real prom” was held in a secret location outside of the county, reports nmisscommentator

How rude, cruel and vile.

474 Responses to "The MEANEST TOWN IN AMERICA: Fake Prom for Lesbian Student?"
AZ Matt | Monday April 5, 2010 10:18 am 1

That was very cruel. These people are heartless.


milowent | Monday April 5, 2010 10:23 am 2

wow, need to read up on the details, but that sounds so incredibly horrible, and also not consistent with what the school board’s attorney PROMISED a federal judge was going to happen.

A very similar horrible stunt was pulled on the first black girl to attend a birmingham alabama school in 1965 — http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XSAfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qacEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6862,5131613


Pannochka | Monday April 5, 2010 11:51 am 3

http://nmisscommentor.com/2010/04/04/what-happened-at-constance-mcmillans-prom/ seems to be down…maybe a lot of traffic.

I sure hope those kids had a great time, thinking about how they fooled those darn gays and friends of gays.

Did they think this would not get out? That town is in for some fun times in the future.


Lisa Derrick | Monday April 5, 2010 12:18 pm 4

Teddy Partridge | Monday April 5, 2010 12:23 pm 5

Seems like a lot of effort to get their hate on.


AZ Matt | Monday April 5, 2010 12:32 pm 6
In response to Teddy Partridge @ 5

Some folks have too much time on their hands. I am sure they are all good Christians however. This appropriate given the fact Easster was just yesterday.


BevW | Monday April 5, 2010 02:20 pm 7

So,a School Board employee / attorney, lied, to the public and Judge – and the taxpayers paid for the salary of the attorney and all school officials that sanctioned and facilitatied and the “Fake” prom, in another county?

Great lessons taught in MS.


begleg10 | Monday April 5, 2010 03:19 pm 8

**Open Minded Readers Only**
I am a senior at IAHS, and I’ve known Constance for the last 6 years. Please hear our side of the story before you decide on our fate.
The party we had in Evergreen (the county neighborhood I live in) is 30 mins away from the school. we rented out the community center, hired vendors, decorated, and our parents ran the security/chaperone staff- but it wasn’t prom. Prom was at the country club where constance and 7 other students were. The reason the senior class boycotted the actual prom was not because we hate gays. We wanted a drama-free gathering to celebrate 3 great years and 1 lousy one together, and we wanted to lay low. We also wanted to do it without the main cause of the lousy. What people are failing to realize is that much of the fault of this whole stink lies with Constance, not her mistreatment by the school district, but her crazy-reckless need for attention. It sounds mean and horrible and like we planned it all specifically to embarrass Constance, but we didn’t. We let her have her prom with her girlfriend and her tuxedo and we went to party it up in the “boondocks” not because we wanted her rights violated, but so we could salvage what has turned into a total fiasco. As a whole we didn’t support her decision to throw the district under the bus, or her insinuations that we’re all just a bunch ‘a hicks driving around in beater pick up trucks spitting tobacco and burning crosses. IAHS is one of the top schools in the state and I’m proud of that, and I’m proud that we took a stand and just said you know what? forget it, we have just as much right as you do to have a party for ourselves. So we did, and now we’re getting flack because poor Connie’s ego got a bit of bruising. She’s playing the lesbian card to prove she ALWAYS gets what she wants. This time, we didn’t just let her.
Take it as you will, because I’m sure it sounds like we faked her out, but understand this- the decision NOT to attend prom had nothing to do with the school or with Constance’s sexual preferences; it had everything to do with proving we weren’t going to let her and the ACLU steamroll us into doing what Constance wanted. We flexed the muscle of the majority and we’ll suffer the consequences.


Pannochka | Monday April 5, 2010 04:03 pm 9

begleg10,
What would you want Constance to do…just not go to the prom with her date? What other options did the school give her? She could either not go with a date like everyone else or seek legal assistance.

This same thing happened (and still happens) in backwards places if a person wanted to bring a date of a different race. Perhaps they should have just accepted prejudice as well.

I hope all y’all have fun going to Itawamba Community College while Constance goes to New York.
And it is good to know that some of the people that went to the official prom were learning disabled. Did they make your last year hell as well?


Pannochka | Monday April 5, 2010 04:07 pm 10

Also, funny a post is addressed to OPEN MINDED READERS but was not written by am OPEN MINDED WRITER.

You take Constance wanting to the same rights as you as a “lesbian trying to prove she always gets what she wants”.

Are you even listening to yourself?


sddave | Monday April 5, 2010 04:19 pm 11

“IAHS is one of the top schools in the state…….”

I think that’s all we need to know. If you represent “one of the top schools in the state” then I suggest we let the state go to Mexico. But please promise us that you will take Alabama and Texas with you!

Oh, bigleg, If you are such an “accepting” school and town, please tell us why you ran a transgender student not only out of the school, but out of the fuckin’ town?!?!?!?!?!?! http://www.queerty.com/constance-mcmillens-high-school-also-suspended-a-transgender-student-just-cause-20100325/

So yes, I would have to say that our assessment (and apparently your assessment as well) of your town being full of hicks is probably spot on.


sddave | Monday April 5, 2010 04:24 pm 12
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Oh, and I guess these pictures are just from “some party” held the same night and not the “prom.”

Yeah, Right. Got it! You are unfuckingbelievable !!!!


amyb | Monday April 5, 2010 05:32 pm 13

Hey, begleg10–are you kidding? This was all Constance’s fault? She was supposed to just go along with a bigoted, archaic, homophobic, and discriminatory rule? You don’t have anything against gays as long as they don’t let on that they are gay, is that it? Wow, that’s big of you. And all the effort that went into having an event specifically to exclude her–you must be so proud. You say she was the cause of the “lousy” (must be a hick term)–did it ever occur to you that the real reason you lost your prom was due to the narrowminded thinking of the school board? All Constance wanted was what everyone else wanted–to attend the dance with her date. And before you throw bouquets at yourself for being so open-minded, what is really hypocritical is that your priority was to have your prom instead of standing up for equal rights for your classmate. Listen kid, there’s a big world out there and if you ever leave that bunghole of a town, you are in for a real shock, so I’ll give you a heads up. There is most likely someone in your family who is gay. And probably one of your teachers. Or a boss. Or even a member of the clergy. Shocker, huh? Oh, and when you brag about being one of the top schools in Mississippi–that sound you hear is the rest of the country laughing our asses off.


moralsandethics | Monday April 5, 2010 05:42 pm 14

@begleg10

I am writing back to you in equal sincerity. Your class made a decision to send a message when you chose to miss the ‘official’ prom in favor of holding your own private event. There is nothing unlawful about this. Yet many acts are immoral and unethical which are nonetheless quite “legal.” That your parents and teachers have not taught you this is a shame on them and a handicap for you in your future lives.

First of all, your behavior in arranging a “bait and switch” was very cowardly. You yourself state that the class wanted to ‘lay low.’ Lying low is normally associated with criminals in hiding. I think the key word here is “lie.” As a class, you conspired to lied to not only Constance but several other of your peers — and do not pretend that lying by silence is not a lie.

You denied Constance the opportunity to choose whether she wanted to attend the official prom, or attempt to attend your private event. Of course, she might have chosen the private event — which would have put the choice back on you, to either let her in or take the blame for locking her out. Either way, well within the law, but I think I’ve made that point.

What would your ‘chaperones’ have done if Constance and her date had shown up? This is the second level of cowardice — the class, as a class, should have taken leadership in handling the dealings with Constance, and not farmed this out to parents or teachers.

Have you learned nothing in American history class? Have you not learned that “separate but equal” is not separate but always unequal? Living in the heart of the Deep South, you echo _Plessy v. Ferguson_ in your very actions.

Like it or not, flamboyant as you may feel that Constance has chosen to be, resentful of the interference of “outsiders” and of a history you did not make, the gaze of a nation fell briefly on your senior class this weekend. And you totally blew it.

Itawamba is now a nationwide symbol of cowardice, shaming not only yourselves but your town, county and state.

If you don’t want to attend prom with a lesbian, don’t go! If all of you don’t want to attend prom with a lesbian, don’t go! But to hold another party on the same evening is to attempt to have your cake and eat it too.

>> we could salvage what has turned into a total fiasco

I hope you enjoyed your party. You will remember and be ashamed for the rest of your days. You had the chance to take a stand, and you chickened out.

Note that I’m not saying that you should have let her come to your party, or that you should have gone to the prom. I can imagine a number of other creative options by which the class could have made its point. What I am saying is that as a class, you carried out a complex scheme of deception for your own convenience, not as a matter of morality.

>> it sounds like we faked her out

You lied because it made your lives easier to do so. There is not a more damning indictment. You may have been one of the top schools in the state, but any school that graduates so many liars and fools makes me wonder if any of its graduates are worthy of any professional license. A doctor gives his word and people live or die by it. An engineer, the same except more lives are lost. A lawyer’s word is a man’s freedom, or the conviction of an innocent.

A politician lies to many people, including himself, but he must keep absolute faith to his given promise — no matter how crooked he is, he must _stay_ bribed. School officials promised the court there would be an official prom. If it is determined that school officials lied to the court, they will be punished. I hope you are capable of learning from that example, if from no other.

A graduate of the nation’s service academies does not lie, cheat or steal OR TOLERATE THOSE WHO DO. By that criterion none of you are fit to be officers of the United States Armed Forces. I certainly would be ashamed to serve alongside one of you.

Was there some other profession in which you can work in which your given word, your integrity, is not required? Think about this in your future jobs in retail where we have cameras to catch thieves.


manray | Monday April 5, 2010 05:49 pm 15
In response to begleg10 @ 8

@begleg10

I’m sure you are confident you and the rest of your class had every right to exclude Constance. Kids, especially high school kids, can be very mean and only think of how to fit in.

I went to a school exactly like yours. Just remember, when this is all over, Constance has a future, and I doubt very much that you’ll amount to much, unless there are monumental changes in your attitude.

I hope one day, YOU are thrown under a bus, (figuratively, not literally) To come on here and try to rationalize what the rest of us see very clearly, you were unkind and cruel.(and then tried to justify it in writing) Constance wasn’t “seeking attention” nor was Constance “playing the lesbian card”. Did you read what you wrote?

You sound shallow and I hope your party in the boondocks gets all the attention it deserves. None of it will be pleasant, and you will just blame Constance and the ACLU anyway.

What if it were you? Singled out and treated differently?

Constance has a future, She’s finished with your shithole town and school in just a few months. Constance has more courage than you will ever possess. In college, she will be praised and accepted, whereas you will be known as the mean girl from a mean town that chose to be a bitch.

Instead of blaming Constance, maybe you should look within and see how unkind this bait and switch prom was. I’m sure you learned this from your parents. You wonder why jokes are made of Mississippi?

You are the joke. Now you know.


emoprince19 | Monday April 5, 2010 05:52 pm 16

Begleg10, I am a senior of a high school at a wealthy school district in Michigan. My senior prom is on June 9th, as you can well imagine my friends are so excited about it. Figuring out what to wear, getting a limo, and just planning out the evening and have a good time. I am openly gay at my school.

When I heard about Constance’s case, I was mad; and when I heard that Constance was sent to a “fake prom” I was furious.

You say that you and the rest of your class have nothing against gays. That Constance has attention problems and that you were taking a stand against Constance for throwing the school district and your class under the bus and that you “faked” her out to get back at her was totally false.

My question to you is….at the private party that you and the rest of your class went to, were there other openly gay students other than Constance at the private party? And if so, were they able to bring same-sex dates? I doubt that Constance is only openly gay student at your school.

You kept going on in your response that it was truly had nothing to do with sexual orientation. Well, if what you are saying is deep down true, that there were openly gay students at the “private party” other than Constance who were able to bring same-sex dates. Then you, your class, and your community have nothing at the end of the day to worry about. That Constance’s spotlight will fade away and her fifteen minutes will be up and everyone will live “happily ever after” and that you and your community have nothing against gays.

But…If it turns out that Constance telling the truth… Well then, it proves that you and everyone else at your school, and community was lying to me and the rest of the country. I’ll finish with this… There this nothing I can’t stand more than someone on the surface who says that they have nothing against gay people when deep down they do.

A closeted homophobe.

Thank you for your time, and good day to you sir or miss.

*Dated April 5, 2010 (Monday) @ 8:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time.


amyb | Monday April 5, 2010 05:54 pm 17

moralsandethics–VERY WELL SAID! But you know, who cares about rights — the most important thing here is not that someone’s rights and feelings were trampled but that the rest of the kids learned that having their dance was far more important than doing the right thing.


manray | Monday April 5, 2010 06:02 pm 18

@morals and ethics

I think you wrote an excellent post. Honesty and integrity are learned, and this lesson that was tuaght to these kids at their “private” prom, has just created the next generation of deceitful liars and assholes.

If this is what “the top school in the State of Mississippi” is teaching, then avoid any graduate from Itawamba school.

I’m not sure a retail job will want this “Begleg” girl, either.
Hats off to Amyb, also.


emoprince19 | Monday April 5, 2010 06:08 pm 19
In response to moralsandethics @ 14

Well said. I hope you and everyone else will read what I wrote about that I thoughts on this whole thing.

Thank You.


fuzzygruf | Monday April 5, 2010 06:16 pm 20
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Hi begleg10. Thanks for having a user name that is so google-able.

Did you know that there was a fake prom for a black student in 1965? They didn’t want to share the spotlight with her, because they were bigoted, just like you:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XSAfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qacEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6862,5131613

One day you’ll regret these feelings. I hope it’s sooner rather than later.


danosc | Monday April 5, 2010 06:19 pm 21
In response to begleg10 @ 8

The irony here begleg10, is that there was probably at least one gay person at your “private” affair who was with an opposite sex date. Yes, odds are that at LEAST one of the participants at your dance was gay, but cowering behind all the small-minded bigotry, nastiness, and ignorance that you town must have in spades. The reality, begleg10, is that the whole town could learn a valuable lesson in courage from Candace. Actually, in the years to come, some of you, but not many, will remember the recent events and will acknowledge the lesson Candace gave you. Not many of you, mind you, but some will. That gay boy or girl or those gay boys or girls who, along with the rest of you, scurried like cockroaches to the secret party, may learn a lesson from all this.


begleg10 | Monday April 5, 2010 06:29 pm 22

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my post from earlier this evening. First want to apologize for the misrepresentation of the motives behind our decision. Secondly, I want to apologize for any discomfort I must have caused all you revolutionaries who are working so hard to bring change to such a small minded place as Itawamba- but do me one favor. Please, do not assume that every graduate from IAHS is stupid, incompetent as I seem to all of you. I ask that you forgive my very emotional attempt at defending my home. I personally believe that the whole thing has turned into a tempest in a teacup, so to speak, and I wish now that things could have been changed. Again, I ask you though please do not sterotype my school, county, state, or region based on what I have said. Thanks again.
Lindsey


amyb | Monday April 5, 2010 06:42 pm 23

begleg10– When many more students, parents, and educators stand up and speak out against discrimination and deception and demand equality and honesty FOR ALL, then honor will be restored to your school. Until that happens, IAHS will be a shameful symbol of hate for anyone associated with it.


emoprince19 | Monday April 5, 2010 06:45 pm 24

Begleg, this is emoprince19, did you read what I wrote in responce to what you said? did you? it’s a simple question. Were there openly gay students at the “other” prom that you went to


zippyboo | Monday April 5, 2010 07:00 pm 25

http://www.facebook.com/begleg10?ref=sgm

This is begleg10′s Facebook page. Check out what she’s got to say March 22nd at 6:35pm. She’s asking whose parent is in charge of the PROM.

Hey Lindsey, I see in your info that you want to be a journalist. Well you’ve just been exposed as a liar, as well as a homophobe. Don’t think that’s gonna serve you well in your future career plans.

Also, you say on March 9th that its a crime against God to deny yourself love, and that that should be the 11th commandment. Yet you and your friends (all 435 of them) seem to have no problem denying other people love, or even tolerance.


amyb | Monday April 5, 2010 07:13 pm 26

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That’s great, Zippyboo! So, Lindsey, now we all know who you and your friends are. I just read everything in your Info and your Wall–and some of your posts to your Friends’ Walls too. It’s easy to have secret dances and hide behind screen names, isn’t it? You never have to be accountable for what you say. Good luck with that journalism career–you better come up with a good pseudonym.


moralsandethics | Monday April 5, 2010 07:13 pm 27

Briefly, I would like to express my appreciation for begleg10′s courage in being willing to come here, to speak coherently and reply with civility. I withdraw that part of my remarks with respect to any cowardice on her part as an individual.

Her class may not have intended to engage in “separate but equal” discrimination. However there is a long history of this sort of thing which multiple commenters have struck on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated_prom

“Standing up” is not based on deception. If Constance was made aware of the party, and was not invited, that is one level of moral conduct. I may disagree but I’m not paying for the party. (Given the expense involved, this is one reason most of us are thinking that the parents made this decision and not the class.) However given that it is being reported that two learning-disabled students were also deliberately left in ignorance, this is no longer a case of “standing up” but “shutting out.”

Let’s pretend in an ideal world that every student had a free and fully informed choice which party to be at. It’s not the task of class leaders, teachers and administrators, or anyone else to make this choice for them. It *is* their task to permit each student the choice, to do what each student feels is morally right in acceptance of the consequences.

The two questions I would ask all the members of the IAHS senior class, if I and they had time, would be this:

1) Did you feel that you had a free choice of which party to attend?

2) Did all of your classmates, even the ones you didn’t like?

It’s easy to be fair to people you like. Being fair to people you don’t like is one of the foundations of justice, and it’s work.

As a matter of simple courtesy, unless there was exclusionary intent, someone should have made certain that every member of the class knew about the private party. At my high school our leaders worked from a printout of the school roster when the stakes were high. If “everyone” needed to know something, we didn’t let the rumor mill do it for us. This was in the days long before Facebook, mind you.

An attempt was made to block a student from graduating with our class because of a school-internal mixup, on the day of graduation. The whole class threatened to skip graduation in a body. The administrators knew we’d do it — we knew we’d do it — and that’s why he walked with us. He happened to be a friend, but he could have been a jerk and I’d still have done it, because he was a _classmate_. And any of them would have done it for me, even the ones who didn’t like me.

Class spirit. Integrity. Self respect. There’s a lot here, too much to go into in a comment, but this is an issue that strikes as deep if not deeper than ‘equal rights’ of gender or creed or orientation or race.


anisaerah | Monday April 5, 2010 07:19 pm 28
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Lindsey, insisting on equal treatment regardless of sexual orientation is *not* “playing the lesbian card”.

And seeing the photos of your *prom* that were labeled as “Prom 2010″, it’s hard to believe your story about it just being a private party.


somechick | Monday April 5, 2010 07:31 pm 30
In response to begleg10 @ 22

Lindsey, you have just learned a very valuable lesson on the internet and privacy.

Your statement displays to me one of four possibilities:
1) The school board called you in and gave you a nice talking-to.
2) Your church began receiving flack and gave you a nice talking-to.
3) Your parents saw the writing on the wall (literally) and obtained an attorney.
4) Your online accounts suddenly filled up with “love notes.”

Welcome to the Real World, youngster. It’s a big place chock-full of people different from you. Next time – and I mean this in just about every way – please think about it before you act.


woad | Monday April 5, 2010 08:44 pm 31
In response to begleg10 @ 8

It sounds to me Begleg10, that you and your classmates have proved her point. Let me ask you this…what would Jesus have to say about the lies and deception and hate that you and your classmates have perpetrated against Constance? To quote from your FB profile: “I think I want to be a journalist when I grow up, but I suppose I have to grow up first.” You are right. You (and your classmates…and even the parents) have a lot of growing up to do. You are also correct…life is too short… why worry about what other people are doing or who they are in love with? Live your life to its fullest and worry about the log in your own eye first.


sddave | Monday April 5, 2010 09:00 pm 32
In response to begleg10 @ 22

Misrepresentation of your motives?

Really? How did you misrepresent your motives? Were your motives not guided by exclusivity? Did you not seek to exclude certain individuals from the dance?

You asked us to

not assume that every graduate from IAHS is stupid, incompetent as I seem to all of you.

We don’t think that all graduates from IAHS is stupid and incompetent, we just know that a very high majority of you are bigots.

Then you go on to say,

I wish now that things could have been changed.

So what would you have changed now that all is said and done? Not that it really matters. Because the damage has already been done. I’m just curious what you would change. And if you are REALLY sorry, you wouldn’t be here begging us to not pass judgment on ALL of those 400+ that attended the same prom you did. You would be begging THEM to apologize to all of those you decided were not worthy of being in your and your classmates presence – and yes, that apology should be extended to Constance.

You see, one of the problems that you now have, and hopefully you will have learned this lesson, Constance did NOT cause the school to cancel the prom. THAT was the decision of the school and the school board. From my understanding there were several students that had stated that if Constance was going to be there with her same-gendered partner that they wouldn’t attend. THAT was their decision. Whether you personally have a problem with gays or lesbians isn’t the issue, it is the fact that you allowed and actually helped perpetuate the idea that this one single student is what caused the school to cancel the sanctioned event. It was the leaders of this school’s bigotry that was at fault. After all, it is the school’s responsibility to make sure that each student feels safe in that environment.


manray | Monday April 5, 2010 09:34 pm 33

Lindsey:

We’re not revolutionaries. Nor is there any need to apologize for your misrepresentation, we understood, it is how you see the world.
This was a choice made collectively, by parents, students, and administrators of your school and town.

One day you will reflect on this as an adult, and realize you, in your plea for “open minds” failed to have one of your own. When called on it responded with a condescending yet superficially polite note not to judge you, your town, or the region you live in.

“Judge not lest ye be judged”. You judged Constance, and now you want to be excused? Karma is difficult, (think: bitter pill, I’m sure you already know all about bitter pills).

We’re hardly revolutionary, we just try to be kind and lack patience for those who fail to even make an effort.

The glare of media attention must have been uncomfortable.

You may think you’ve won, but what was the prize? Nothing, there was no trophy, nor money, just the realization, that not everyone chooses to be thoughtless and mean.

What did you choose?


manray | Monday April 5, 2010 09:43 pm 34

@begleg10 AKA Lindsey

I give you credit for posting here. You were civil, at least in word, I’m not sure of intent. It could be construed as sneering.
Regardless, I hope the best for you. I hope the lesser people here leave you alone and let you figure it out for yourself.

May you treat others as you would wish to be treated.


manray | Monday April 5, 2010 09:54 pm 35
In response to zippyboo @ 25

Hey, zippyboo, that’s not OK. She did have some degree of courage, leave her alone. Don’t mock her. Let her learn her own lesson. She is the only one that can learn it, Being mean to her will just reinforce that she was right and the behavior of the school was excusable.

Public shaming and mocking (posting her Facebook page) will not make her a better person. Only she can do that.

To anyone else who feels compelled to harass her, send her Facebook messages, etc. DON’T. This has gone far enough and the damage has been done. Don’t add to it.


pale | Monday April 5, 2010 10:08 pm 36
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Aw.. Poor things. So sad. All so hard done by. National attention to bigotry, how dare she?

So, was it worth it? BTW, did you all make all those clothes? Sure looked like it.
Anyway. Hope you had a wonderful time, with that wonderful prank in those horrific outfits, and equally bad decorations. The cruelty of what you all decided to do obviously escapes you….No conscience.


kangstrom | Monday April 5, 2010 11:33 pm 37
In response to begleg10 @ 22

You poor misguided bigoted fool.

The abuser does not get to set the terms of the abuse. That’s like a man beating his wife and saying “Well, she asked for it. She was mouthy.” It doesn’t matter how mouthy she was, at the point where the boundaries of decent human behavior are crossed, you are responsible for your own actions.

Every single one of you pathetic small-minded twits knew very well that you were doing something hurtful. You rejoiced in that fact. Then you blamed your victim. You don’t even have the common decency of owning up to what you did.

Remember this little lecture on personal responsibility. All selfish brats with no empathy, all those abusive people who would rather hurt someone than talk, all those hypocritical pigs who prayed one day and preyed the next – that’s your dating pool, those are your friends. That’s as good as it gets for you. You’re too small minded to get out of your small town. Even if you do, people will know you as the hateful bigot and you’ll go running back.

So look around. These are the people who will be with you until you die. This is your view for the rest of your long, dull, petty little lives.

Was it worth it?


Teddy Partridge | Monday April 5, 2010 11:35 pm 38

Hey Lindsay –
Why were the learning disabled classmates excluded from your PROM?


footnotegirl | Monday April 5, 2010 11:51 pm 39
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Lindsey,
Of course it was a prom.
Pictures are available. You wore prom dresses, tuxes, the parents posting them called it a prom, other students called it ‘the prom’, it was prom and saying otherwise is disingenuous in the extreme.
I do applaud your courage to come forth and speak, but please, let’s be honest about what was going on. You do not defend yourself well when your own words are easily found and put before you (a lesson your classmate, Jay Nichols, well learned with his contradicting comments on Facebook and Yahoo Answers).
You know what would have been really courageous? If when your school decided to cancel prom rather than simply let Constance come with her date as would have been right, the students all got together and boycotted any prom, had stood with Constance and said “No, this is wrong.”
But you didn’t. You decided to remain quiet, and/or to blame Constance for simply standing up for her rights and saying “No, this is wrong.”
When Rosa Parks refused to get up out of her seat, would you have said how she was just wanting attention? How she should just have stayed quiet and done what she was told? I hope not.
I beg that you read the article posted above about the school that pulled this exact same stunt on another girl forty years or more ago. They have had regret and shame gnawing at their guts for decades, and someday, you will too.


rabidbadger | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:14 am 40

Hi Lindsay,
I’m curiously if the learning disabled students were also also attention-seeking lesbian activists, or if they were excluded from your “non-prom” because you and your classmates don’t like disabled people either. While you claim the class just wanted to be out of the spotlight, their exclusion makes it appear that you and your classmates, perhaps with the help of your parents, used Constance McMillen and the publicity as an excuse to create a “NORMAL kids only” event and weed out all those icky kids who don’t fit in.

As someone whose mother worked with learning disabled children, the thought that and your classmates may have excluded other students on the basis of disability makes me heartsick. Was this merely an oversight or are you, your classmates (and,apparently, your families) just this immature and cruel?
Please explain.


kevinlyda | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:21 am 41
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Lisa Derrick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:05 am 42
In response to begleg10 @ 8

I wonder Lindsey, how those other students ended up at Constance’s prom and not at your fancy party? Were they not cool enough to be in on your joke?

I don’t think Jesus would be happy about this on Good Friday? What happened to “do unto to others” and “love thy neighbor as thyself” or even “love the sinner hate the sin”?

Have you read To Kill A Mocking Bird? Do you understand Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr.? Heck, do you not understand what Jesus said in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, who at least were there, though there stories written down decades after Jesus died? (Paul wasn’t; he was playing telephone)

You children and your parents made your town look like petty, cruel bigots. If you all had taken a deep breath and gone and behaved with dignity and grace, you could have and would have shown the world how wonderful America is, that the values of equality and liberty are present here, and that despite our difference and inability to agree are certain things, we work together as communities for the greater good.

Instead you have perpetuated the worst stereotypes of Americans, of small towns, of Southerners, of Christians. As the child of a Southern woman and a Kansas man, both of whom came from small towns, and as a student of the Bible, it painful to see that you and your fellows actually live down to stereotype of cruel high schoolers picking on the “uncool,” to the stereotype of mindless religious robots, to the stereotype of Southern bigots and small town ignoramuses.

May God have mercy on you, your parents and the other adults who stood by and let this selfish, destructive, creation-destroying travesty happen.

And I am looking forward to the TV movie…


kittkatt | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:51 am 43
In response to begleg10 @ 8

You, my dear, will not be darkening the door of my Alma mater, Syracuse University, that I can assure you. If by some fluke you had been accepted the acceptance would now be rescinded. You have left too clear a footprint on the Internet. It is good that you are prepared to accept the consequences of your cruel, morally bankrupt actions because there will be consequences. I see retail in your future… Maybe a Walmart greeter– you don’t have the intelligence or open mindedness required to be a journalist.


kittkatt | Tuesday April 6, 2010 03:04 am 44
In response to begleg10 @ 8

By the way- I liked your little joke about Rush, Beck and McConnell. Now go put some security on your fb account so the whole world can’t read every thought that pops into your head. I guess on reflection I am sorry that your parents and teachers failed you so badly on this and just in general…but this is as good a time as any to grow up and start thinking for yourself. Good luck.


anna100 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:15 am 45
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Wow! Due the recession I’d tapered off on my ACLU donations. After reading this I am sending money(and telling my friends) to them RIGHT NOW.


amyb | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:23 am 46

“How quick come the reasons for approving what we like.” By the same token, how quick come the reasons for disapproving that which we don’t like–as you proved in your letter defending the actions of you and your friends. Anyone who quotes Jane Austen must have some brain cells still functioning. LIndsey, this is your moment to decide if you are going to remain a shallow, cowardly little bigot or if you will rise up and denounce the prejudiced deception that you and your crowd orchestrated. It’s shameful that there seems to be no adult acting as a mature role model. The parents who pulled that prom together showed their true colors in making sure that THEIR child was not deprived of the fun, even if it was at the expense of someone else’s child. I was surprised to see how many of your Friends take such pride in being Christian and so many of the adults and kids freely talk about God in their posts. I wonder, Who Would Jesus Shun? There’s safety in numbers, and I’m sure it’s a lot more comfy to reassure yourself that you and all your friends just wanted to have some innocent fun. But that’s a disingenuous argument–you all knew full well that certain people were being denied an equal opportunity to partake of the same fun. I’m sure you all had a great time that night–the photos certainly tell the story. But as time goes by, those of you who mature and get in touch with your consciences will realize with shame that you all are guilty of selfishness, prejudice, and deceit. You owe Lindsey and the other kids who were excluded a formal, personal apology and you need to work on figuring out just what kind of person you do want to be when you grow up.


3letterjon | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:27 am 47

What does Sarah Palin have to say about excluding the retards, too? Or is that just collateral damage in the war against filthy lezbos?


missyb | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:12 am 48

I personally believe that the whole thing has turned into a tempest in a teacup, so to speak, and I wish now that things could have been changed

.

“It’s a tempest in a teapot” is code speak for “stop paying attention to the wrong thing I did!”, pumpkin. You were so proud to say that you’ll suffer the consequences for what you did, now you’re learning what those consequences are.

How nice that you “wish things could have changed”. Except, you made an ACTIVE choice to participate in the bigotry and deceit. You CHOSE to be an asshole. Yes, I said it. Asshole. Then you tried to defend it.

At least have the decency to own up to your assholery.

Again, I ask you though please do not sterotype my school, county, state, or region based on what I have said.

Oh, no, honey. It’s not just what you said. They’ve already shown the world what classless assholes they are without any help from you.


sddave | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:37 am 49

Lindsey,

This 10-year-old boy, Will Phillips, has more integrity than you and the fellow classmates that went to your “secret prom” will EVER have combined.


PierceNichols | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:20 am 50
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Congratulations, Lindsey Begley, you have just rendered yourself unemployable in any decent place. Decent places have laws against discrimination history on the basis of sexual orientation. Your public history of homophobic bigotry makes you a discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen.

If I were you, I’d start trying to walk that shit back right now and build a countervailing public history of contrition and decent behavior. But it’s clear you lack the self-awareness and good sense to do so.


xopher | Tuesday April 6, 2010 11:05 am 51

This same school kept suspending a transgendered girl (i.e. born a boy but female-identified) for no reason. I guess if you have a school board made up of bigoted losers, you get teachers who are bigoted losers, and you end up with students who are bigoted losers like Lindsey Begley.

Oh, and liars. And bad Christians.

Their parents led them, but they followed. This school’s class of 2010 are scumbags. I haven’t heard of any of them saying they didn’t know about the fake prom, or that they didn’t go to the secret prom because of it, or that they support Constance. Until I do, my brush is broad.


gdhjasun | Tuesday April 6, 2010 11:12 am 52

Hm… Now since a bunch of those spoiled brats will have gay kids of their own… who will grow up to be teenagers… and probably harassed and bullied gay teenagers…

I wonder what Lindsey Begley and her ilk will tell their kids.

For sure the kids will know about it… see those prom pictures…

Lindsey, if you do have a gay son or daughter who asks you about that night… what will you tell them?


LaurenAnn | Tuesday April 6, 2010 11:17 am 53
In response to kittkatt @ 43

Agree wholeheartedly. As an alum I feel it’s my obligation to forward all this to the admissions department. Syracuse values diverse opinions, but with the expectation of respect. It is clear that the commenter above has no respect for her classmate and the opinions of people who think differently (read – know better). I’ve kept a screenshot of her comments, should she realize her stupidity and choose to remove them.


gdhjasun | Tuesday April 6, 2010 11:30 am 54

Wait… all those other “undesirables” that you left out of the prom… were they playing the “retard card” or something?

It’s pretty clear that you’re just a bunch of bratty bigoted kids who thought it would be funny to weed out the kids who aren’t up to your standards. Lying about it just makes things worse.


anaisninja | Tuesday April 6, 2010 11:33 am 55
In response to sddave @ 32

sddave said,
In response to begleg10 @ 22

Then you go on to say,
“I wish now that things could have been changed.”

So what would you have changed now that all is said and done? Not that it really matters. Because the damage has already been done. I’m just curious what you would change.

____________

I think she meant she wishes they hadn’t been caught. That’s the only thing she’s sorry for.


bpick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 11:44 am 56

This could have happened where I grew up. I think it almost did, but in the end they let the boys go. I can’t remember, because I didn’t care that much about prom.

What’s interesting is that I completely understand the remarks by the commenter bigleg10, a senior from the school trying to defend what happened (indefensible). I’m also incredibly ashamed of the people who think it’s acceptable to call people hicks, and backward, and twits, and all other sorts of names, as though bigotry is some sort of indicator of stupidity (it’s… just… not, sadly) and endemic to the South–as though there are no bigots in the Midwest, as though there is no hatred in New England, as though Alabama and Mississippi and Georgia and Texas and Virginia were all the same state, as though somehow we all share the same beer-guzzling Bible-thumping hive mind by virtue of being born south of the Mason-Dixon and never even think to yearn for the clean, individualistic enlightenment of the rest of the country. Yes, we have the history of slavery, but y’all share the history of cheating, deceiving, and killing Native Americans, and you have your own of maltreating immigrants who look the same as you. The hypocrisy of decrying bigotry against a group with which you sympathize by engaging in it yourself against one with which you don’t is nauseating and the arrogance of your quoting the parts of the Bible you like apparently without any real knowledge of the ways in which it’s widely taught, interpreted, and understood is embarrassing. Is it any wonder the bucktoothed, inbred hillbillies (which, naturally, as Southerners, they all are) you’re mocking find you self-righteous, and pompous? Listen to yourselves, with your name-calling and your belittling. Would you listen to you? I left the South for college because I wanted to go somewhere where my ideas (voting for Obama, not minding taxes that help the poor) were more frequently welcomed and shared, and I found it, but I certainly didn’t leave behind ignorance and bigotry.

I doubt Bigleg will come back to this forum, and I honestly can’t blame her, but if she does: Yes, it genuinely sucks for your senior prom to be disrupted by a scandal at a national level, but that wouldn’t have happened if the school hadn’t denied a (very possibly obnoxious!) girl her right as a student to go to prom with her date. There were *obnoxiously* out people at my high school, too. They were obnoxious because their homosexuality wasn’t welcome, and they had to either be ashamed or rub it in everyone’s faces, because they weren’t permitted the option of simply being. I knew one single gay boy who denied being gay (until college) and was still mocked mercilessly as a fag. He was super annoying at sixteen, but that doesn’t make it okay to make his life miserable. Although it seems like it should, Constance’s personality or actions literally don’t matter; in principle, she shouldn’t have been blocked from bringing a girlfriend or wearing a tux, and your school shouldn’t have canceled the prom because of the stink about it. Drama sucks, but sometimes it’s necessary, because things happen that are wrong.

That’s my soapboxing.


softballgirl10 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:25 pm 57

as another student of IAHS i’m TIRED OF THIS. it has made me LOSE FAITH IN THE MEDIA.

NONE OF YOU KNOW CONSTANCE. she has been pulling this stuff for years and I doubt she’s a lesbian frankly. but whatever she’s got her college paid for and she got to wear her “different” tux and everyone loves her and she’s got exactly what she wanted. it is ironic that we are called the close minded when you all throw slurs at us and you don’t even know us. you’re all so hateful. all we wanted was a quiet night away from this mess and her but we have that taken away from us now.

and i don’t understand the disabled kids stuff, we don’t even talk to them, so stop judging. they could have come to our prom if they wanted to.


softballgirl10 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:29 pm 58

also i’m proud of our administration for backing us up by the way instead of running away from all of you. that’s courage, not trying to get away with wearing weird clothes. you all think she’s an angel..


itsamemario | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:34 pm 59

Good on you guys! Who wants a bunch of homos and retards at their prom?


pambradford | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:34 pm 60

Dear Lindsay Begley aka legbeg10: There are people who hold on to your type of insane, skanky, underhanded rationalizations all their lives. They wind up on street corners, with needles in their arm, prostituting, or in Institutions, or in abusive marriages and the like simply because they can’t live with the crap they’ve done in their past. You my dear are among these folks. I hope you find the company both acceptable and rewarding… the kind of rewards you so richly deserve. And I ask you “what WOULD Jesus do?”


itsamemario | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:36 pm 61

Those kinds of people should be rounded up and put in camps of some sort! That way normal people don’t have to look at them drooling all over themselves, or playing with their poop! It makes me sad to think they could ruin my happy life!


sugarspun | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:41 pm 62
In response to begleg10 @ 8

@moralsandethics: Great posts, thank you.

@Begleg10: Thank you for having the courage to come back and speak. Really, all I wanted to do was to tell you two things. Firstly, mud sticks. The internet has a long memory, and you’ve dealt your dreams a potentially fatal blow by attempting to justify your actions. You, along with your classmates, their parents, your teachers and principal and anyone else involved in the organisation of what has been called “prom” even if you insist that it was a private party, are equally culpable in the deliberate exclusion of undesirable students, and this is a lesson that will come back to haunt some if not all of you in the future.

While it is understandable that you wanted to celebrate away from the hostile eyes of the press (hostility that is understandable; the school board was guilty of shocking bigotry regardless of local opinion), you and all of your classmates failed to perform the decent, Christian act of not excluding the underdog. You may recall the bit in the New Testament where Jesus hangs out with the tax collector and the hooker because nobody else would and because his heart was large enough to encompass all and to overlook the side-eye of the people around him. It is not for you – or for your principal or the local authorities – to judge Constance’s sexual preferences. Render unto Caesar, or render unto the law of your country. The law states that sexual preference and disability are inviolable; you may not legally discriminate on grounds of them. You and your classmates discriminated on both grounds.

The second lesson that I hope with all my heart you will listen to is this: sometimes, in whatever job you end up with (and I hope that you have not destroyed your chances at a career outside of Itawamba), there will be people you do not like. These people are entitled to the same courtesy as your parents, and partner, and friends. Even when we dislike people for who they are, it is vital that we maintain that courtesy towards them, because all people are created equal and our feelings towards them are secondary. It is ok to dislike people, even to dislike them for choices they make or the people they choose to love. It is not ok to exclude them on these grounds. This is perhaps the most important lesson you can learn: if someone does things you don’t like, they are still entitled to courtesy and respect.

@softballgirl10: It doesn’t matter that you don’t like Constance. She has legal rights, just as you do, and you and your administration failed to ensure that she received them. As for her “weird clothes”, wasn’t your date dressed just the same? (And for the record, if he happened to be the guy in the white tux with the side parting and the fair hair, he’s in the closet playing for Constance’s team.)

Your dismissal of the disabled students disturbs me: they could have come to your prom, but were they invited? You say no one talks to them; did anyone tell them it was happening? I understand very well how you could be sick of the media intrusion, but your preference for life away from the cameras and microphones does not justify your exclusion of the lesbian and the disabled students. I hope that one day you realise how cruel your exclusion of the students who might have spoiled the party for you was. Some people are not fun to have around. They may be loud, messy, smelly, retarded, whatever. They are still people, and they have all the rights that you do.


itsamemario | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:53 pm 63

If you start letting homos and retards do normal things with you, they are going to assume you actually like them. We can’t have that. Soon, they’ll think your friends, and they’ll say hi to you in front of your friends. Then your friends will make fun of you, and you won’t be cool. Then you’ll be alienated from your clique! Then it’s a downward spiral, into drugs and selling your body! Then you end up dead either by suicide, or raped and murdered in an alley! So, rather than go through all of that, just keep all the pillowbiters and carpet munchers, and waterheads out of your social events. It’s quite simple. I think soon enough, the rest of America will see you guys were totally in the right.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:54 pm 64

Softballgirl10 wrote:

and i don’t understand the disabled kids stuff, we don’t even talk to them, so stop judging. they could have come to our prom if they wanted to.

So if you “don’ even talk to them” how would they have known about “your prom.”

Oh wait. Lindsey said it wasn’t a prom.


softballgirl10 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:55 pm 65
In response to sugarspun @ 62

you know what i mean by weird. what if she wanted to come to prom with a police siren on her head? one that’s really loud would you defend her then?? that’s what SHE WAS DOING THIS FOR. TO GET PEOPLE TO STARE AT HER. she is using the lesbian thing as an excuse to look like a victim but she JUST WANTS YOU TO LOOK AT HER. she ruined our year… just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. like i said she won anyway she got her prom.


missyb | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:56 pm 66
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

You’ve lost faith in the MEDIA? I thought “good Christians” were supposed to have faith in Jesus?

You go on and be sick of the consequences of your actions all you want. There’s an old saying about making one’s bed and lying in it…you should get to it.


itsamemario | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:57 pm 67
In response to softballgirl10 @ 65

How dare she! What a jerk! At least you guys had a good time!


softballgirl10 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 12:58 pm 68

i love beggers but let’s call it what it is.


amyb | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:00 pm 69

Actually, bigotry IS stupid. And no one has said that it is exclusive to the South. The anger most of us are expressing toward the school in general and LIndsey in particular is not because they are Southern, but because they behaved like bigots. I am sure most of the other people posting here would have the exact same response if this happened in CA or NY. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth–supporting Constance while perpetuating the notion that she may be obnoxious without any real evidence of that. There were “obnoxiously” out people in your school? In what way? Perhaps they found you to be obnoxiously straight? So many people are disturbed by any display of affection by gays, and yet we are bombarded by straight sexuality every time we turn around. At my high school, kids were always kissing, hugging, holding hands–is it only okay if they’re straight but “obnoxiously” out and “rubbing people’s faces in it” if they’re not? Your references to the gay people you knew are linked with obnoxious and super-annoying–maybe they were just obnoxious and super annoying people and it had NOTHING to do with their sexuality. Surely you know some straight people who were obnoxious and annoying? Why bring personality into it at all?


sugarspun | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:03 pm 70

I hope that one day you remember what you wrote and cringe. I’m trying to be gentle because you’re so young and you’ve been taught by people who also haven’t learned basic courtesy.

YOU got your prom. What Constance and the disabled kids you don’t talk to got was a reminder that the kids they went to school with are too bigoted to realise that human rights are of higher importance than their feelings.

A police siren on her head, assuming it was flashing and going off, is not the same thing as a tux or a same-sex date. Presumably you had a lot of fun with your friends – would you really have spent your time watching Constance and her date if she’d been there to the extent that you wouldn’t have danced, or laughed with your friends, or posed for photos, or kissed your date, or perhaps let him put his hand in your pants afterwards?

If someone else’s choices ruin your night, you’re not doing the night right.


kaje | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:08 pm 71

we don’t even talk to them, so stop judging.

LOL. Do you even listen to yourself? Obviously not.


softballgirl10 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:20 pm 72
In response to sugarspun @ 70

you don’t know me and you don’t know the people who raised me and you DON’T KNOW CONSTANCE. this isn’t about bigotry i don’t care if she’s actually a lesbian. you’re the ones stereotyping that we’re dumb hicks in the south who only know the bible. and you’re stereotpying Constance as a victim but none of you really know, it’s sad and it makes me angry, all you know is what she tells the media. YOU ARE THE ADULTS yet she manipulates you all so easily. i doubt much of you have been to mississippi and none of you to my school yet you think you know better.


itsamemario | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:25 pm 73
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

You are so right. I don’t even think those people know what bigotry means! It’s probably a totally different definition.


lindoroalmaviva | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:29 pm 74
In response to begleg10 @ 8

So you do a cruel thing and now you want to play the victim? How incensere and pathetic is that? You now expect to be given the benefit of the doubt AFTER you treated Constance and other people like crap. So you have the balls to do the deep but not the balls to face the consequences?

How pathetic and retarded of you. You and the rest of your class are exactly what your nehavior reflected: stupic, uneducated bigots who should all be sued.

I hope whatever university you are attending (provided you actually have the brains to get bejond a 1.5 grade average without the help of mommy, daddy and the teachers) is taking notice and sends you a cancellation notice soon.


gdhjasun | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:31 pm 75

Yes, SoftballGirl, we know JUST what you mean by “weird.” You mean “someone who’s not like us.”

Like the kids with learning disabilities. You made sure they didn’t know where to go, too.

Now tell me… some of you will have kids of your own… many of you will have gay kids, maybe kids with LD. When they become teenagers and ask you about your secret prom prank on the lez kid, what will you tell them?


sugarspun | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:33 pm 76

No, I’m not stereotyping. I have not called you a dumb hick, and I’ve been to Mississippi. My point is simply that the law is the same everywhere in the USA, and the law says that people have to be treated the same – even if you dislike them.

It’s ok for you to dislike her. It’s even ok for you to dislike her because she’s a lesbian. What isn’t ok is for you to exclude her and pretend that it is ok to exclude her because you dislike her, because your exclusion of her (even indirectly) was based on her sexual preference.

She chose to bring her situation to the spotlight. You, your peers, and your parents, had a choice: to allow her to bring a date to the prom or to leave her out. You chose to leave her out. Whatever your reasons are, your actions – as with all actions – will have consequences. You may, as Lindsey Begley may, find that your college place or funding has been mysteriously rescinded. You may find that once people realise that you’re part of the IAHS’10 class they stop replying to your emails and don’t invite you to join them for a coffee or a beer.

I have no opinion on Constance the person. I’ve never met her, and I’m sure she’s far more annoying than her TV persona would suggest because most teenagers are. My opinion is purely legal: excluding her from what you’re all calling prom was a violation of the law, and claiming it was a private party when everyone who was at it is referring to it as prom is both disingenuous and unlikely to stand up in court.


gdhjasun | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:33 pm 77
In response to itsamemario @ 73

Oh they always play the victim when they know they have no defense. Look at how the Vatican is reacting to the news they’ve helped child rapists get away… they blame the “media.” These kids are no different… they wanted a nice pure prom but it’s the MEDIA’s fault and the fault of the “WEIRD LESBIAN.”

Of course.. had they just allowed her to go to the prom in the first place, nobody in the media would have cared and there would have been no law suit. THEY drew the line in the sand and now they’re crying that it got stepped over.

Typical.


manray | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:39 pm 78
In response to softballgirl10 @ 58

If I were you, softballgirl10 – I’d run from this forum. It didn’t work out too well for Lindsey, and you’re not exactly on friend;y territory.

The fact is, kids are mean. Unfortunately, it seems you went along to get along. Don’t blame Constance, it makes you seem small.

I think I would let this go if I were you. The damage is done, people are upset and view the students and parents at your school as mean. It certainly appears you ARE mean.

In a number of years, you’ll look back on this with a different perspective.

I’m sorry you are now the object of ridicule, but karma is kind of a bitch, isn’t it?


brendon | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:41 pm 79

Lindsey-

You deserve some credit for making your points and even coming back to say more.

I don’t need to say much about why I think the secret prom you and your classmates attended was a poor call; others have done a good job on that already. And I get the point that Constance may not be anyone that you folks want to party with, and that those reasons may not have anything to do with her sexual preferences. Still, bad call. It just plain looks wrong.

I do want to say that you’ve started to encounter the internet hate machine (I read your FB page too; you seem like an OK kid to me). I just want to tell you that those here who are suggesting they can or have impacted your college options are FOS. The idea that your reputation has been dealt a “fatal blow” because your comments are on the internet, or that you have rendered yourself unemployable are both gross exaggerations. (Itawamba’s reputation is pretty much cooked for the time being though.)

I would be mindful, however, that leaving a public trail can have some consequences you may not want.


amyb | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:52 pm 80
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

Here’s the thing, softballgirl10–the facts speak for themselves. Constance was denied her civil rights — by the school board, by the parents who organized the prom, and by every student who knew what was going on and did nothing about it. Excluding someone on the basis of their sexual orientation most certainly is bigotry, and in this case, Constance most certainly was the victim of discrimination. Sadly, you and your friends have been manipulated by the small, mean-spirited, closed minds of the adults in your community. They have allowed you all to believe that those who are different must be excluded and silenced. Your prom was ruined by their unwillingness to permit Constance to attend the prom with her date–something the rest of you were able to take for granted. I have yet to see that her presence would have been any threat to anyone–you all just don’t like her. Sorry, that does not make it okay to do what you did. You’re right, I don’t know you and I don’t know who raised you. But as the mother of three girls, I would be deeply ashamed if any of my daughters expressed that sort of hostility toward a classmate because of race, creed, or sexuality. I would refuse to allow my daughters to attend an event that was designed for the purpose of excluding another. There are some things in this world that matter a lot more than a pretty dress, my dear. Character, integrity, dignity, and a sense of fair play will last a lot longer than your prom hairstyle. And while I have not had the pleasure of visiting Mississippi, I have traveled extensively in this country and abroad and I can tell you, your attitude would not serve you well much beyond your little hometown, so maybe for you own sake you should just stay put.


n2sox | Tuesday April 6, 2010 01:56 pm 81
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

You’re right. This is all we know of any of you, but your words still scream hate. So you don’t like this girl. In fact, you all hate her. She still has the right to attend her school’s prom. You all went so incredibly far out of your way to make sure you didn’t encounter this person. You wanted a night away from all of this attention? You had the opportunity to be the bigger person here and just suck it up and go have a good time anyways at a prom that was completely inclusive of all students. The fact that one person can have such a gigantic impact on you makes her a powerful person indeed. And you keep giving her power by being small minded, narrow, hateful, and cruel. You might not be that kind of person in every day life, but you took the opportunity to participate in something that was all of those things. Whether you thought it up, your parents, your teachers….whoever. None of you thought that this incident is about WAY MORE than just YOU! This effects all gay kids everywhere. Whether or not you care about gay rights, that IS what this is about and you had a choice to either look a bit farther past your own self to the greater world that you live in, or just be a myopic teenager. So, take a stand, kiddo. Either you made a choice based on your dislike of this girl or you made a choice based on your dislike of gay rights. The point is, you made a choice based on and promoting hate. And you did that all by yourself. Grow up and have the guts to stand by your decision. There are actually REAL problems in the world right now. Your “problem” doesn’t exactly garner any sympathy. You still got your prom, right? You still had a great time, right? Or did you somehow have a crappy time and are now blaming Constance for that too. Shame on you.


n2sox | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:00 pm 82
In response to amyb @ 80

Amy b….well said! much more eloquently than i had the composure for! Nice to know that a mom like you is doing her part to raise girls who will have compassion for others. Way to go.


amyb | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:07 pm 83
In response to n2sox @ 82

Thank you, but to be honest, I am deeply disturbed to know there is still such a long way to go. My daughters are following this story with great interest and it is gratifying to know that their disgust is as deep as mine. A girl in MA recently committed suicide due to relentless bullying in H.S.–how can such young people be so cruel to one another?!


milowent | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:08 pm 84
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

softballgirl10, oh girl, i don’t know where to begin. i hope to God you go to college and learn to think for yourself. this is the type of news story that people will never forget.


n2sox | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:15 pm 85
In response to amyb @ 83

@ amy b. I was following the Phoebe Prince story too. Bullying is a pretty scary truth and especially with girls. Rachel Simmons wrote a good book called “Odd Girl Out” that is a helpful tool for parents to support girls during their teenage years. Honestly, it took me a very long time to be able to be friends with women as an adult based on the cruelty of the girls I went to high school with. But now that I have fantastic friends, I appreciate them all the more.

I can’t imagine what Constance must be feeling. Not only is she being bullied by her peers, but by an enire community of adults. There are no words to understand the amount of hatred that fueled the momentum behind planning, decorating, and executing that secret prom.


kittkatt | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:24 pm 86
In response to brendon @ 79

While I agree that Lindsey has not been dealt a fatal blow in the job or college market (though I asserted that last night) I do think she has severely impacted her options for a “good” college in her chosen field right this minute. At least I hope so… these sort of actions should have consequences. I have been on several forums regarding this story and college admissions staff have weighed in- they DO notice these things- on their own and when specifically brought to their attention. As a work study student at SU I worked in one of the schools’ admissions offices and this was WAY before the internet and acceptances were definitely rescinded for behavior from time to time. It is pretty common knowledge that FB is used by admissions staff, employers and other organizations to “check up” on applicants. Lindsey should see this as a lesson- I somehow think she will. I read her FB page and agree she seems to be a relatively normal kid being pulled along by her community, friends, parents, church… whatever. Softballgirl10 on the other hand appears to be a hopeless bitch.


missfag | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:28 pm 87

I organized the first integrated prom in another Mississippi town in 1987… yes, the first integrated prom for our town wasn’t until 1987.

I understand the thinking of the people in Itawamba County. I fought that same mindset almost 25 years ago. It is, quite simply, a fear of change.

Thank goodness our town had people — school administrators, parents, students — who were brave enough to move the town forward. Sure, there were parents who wouldn’t let their kids go to the integrated prom — and the two private, segregated proms didn’t suffer in attendance — but the only people who went on to have regrets were the “defenders” of tradition.

The lesson I learned in 1987 — and the lesson everyone should learn about what happened in Itawamba County — is quite simple: If no one stands up and shows leadership, cowardice wins.

So thank you, Constance, for showing those of us who have been fighting the fight for decades before you that there are still people who prove to be more adult than the adults.

Oh, and as a side note to begleg10: If you want to be a journalist, you should probably learn about active and passive voice. “I wish now that things could have been changed” (passive voice) says to everyone that you don’t care who makes the change. If you’re not willing to stand up and be the catalyst for that change — to live your life actively, like Constance — then your future will always be controlled by someone else.


imflower | Tuesday April 6, 2010 02:29 pm 88
In response to begleg10 @ 8

I am having a hard time imagining a crueler thing that could have been done, without resorting to violence.
Perhaps the muscles flexed should have been flexed not toward those wanting to defend the rights of another student, but toward those who wanted to deny her rights.


kittkatt | Tuesday April 6, 2010 03:02 pm 89

Let’s see now, Softballgirl10- I know you are feeling pretty good about yourself hiding behind your screen name- it seems that you are one of 5 girls, all of whom appeared in the “prom” pictures plastered all over the internet. So, since you are so confident that you and all of your horrible friends are in the right, why keep hiding? Out yourself! Are you Andrea, Jasna, Morgan, Stephanie or Megan? Your mom must be so proud… (the sickening thing is she probably is).


robotheart | Tuesday April 6, 2010 03:09 pm 90

@begleg10 “How quick come the reasons for approving what we like!” indeed.


zilch | Tuesday April 6, 2010 03:22 pm 91

I am wondering if softball girl plans on continuing her softball career past her high school. That could be interesting :)


shamster | Tuesday April 6, 2010 03:28 pm 92
In response to kittkatt @ 89

How did you know she’s one of those 5 girls?


shamster | Tuesday April 6, 2010 03:37 pm 93
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

Hey, you got your quiet night away, so why are you still complaining?

Oh wait, that’s right! It’s because most of your classmates deliberately excluded several students from your graduating class from a party that was going on and you’re getting called out on it! What goes around comes around, honey.

You and your classmates wanted your prom back. And thanks to the ACLU, it forced your school district to host it anyway. So what do you do to repay them? You go to some parent sponsored prom where all the ‘normal’ kids got to go to! You and other students could have gone to that and be happy that you got your prom back. But nope, you didn’t. You could have had a great time with all your classmates, but you decided to go to the parent prom instead that excluded Constance and others who “just didn’t fit in”. So you’re totally not a bigot and you’re sooo not close-minded. You just wanted your prom!

Also, I suggest you drop your attitude. It’s gonna shoot your in the foot someday, and quite frankly, you sound like a bitch.


kittkatt | Tuesday April 6, 2010 03:39 pm 94
In response to shamster @ 92

Well I don’t until/unless she fesses up and I get the feeling she took a poster’s advice from farther up thread and ran… That or the fact that she is probably playing a game right now…as one started at 5:00 and she hasn’t posted since a bit before that. Softball player, online schedule/roster, senior, facebook, all profile pics with fresh prom hair, make up and some of the tackiest dresses you could ever lay your eyes on…


kaia | Tuesday April 6, 2010 04:19 pm 95
In response to softballgirl10 @ 65

Since when did wearing pants become weird? I find it funny how you continue to blame the victim here for her abuse, continuously state that ‘we dont know Constance’ yet never really state exactly what she has done.

Did you ever think that if she didnt have to suffer the harsh reality of oppression that maybe she never would have ‘had to play the lesbian card’?? Really? I hope SNL uses your ignorant comments as they will be remembered for a long time.

If she had never been banned in the first place (which is illegal) then this never would have happened.

YOU ARE A BIGOT because you don’t understand this simple concept even tho hundreds of thousands of people have tried to make you understand that.

Thats exactly what makes you a bigot and you are just a responsible for your actions as the school board members who banned her in the first place.

And for your information, those responsible can and probably will be held in contempt of court for lying to the judge.
You can justify your little ‘backwoods party’ however you want, but you and your parents, and school admins DID invite her to a fake prom and yes you WILL have to reap the consequences of violating the law.


justice40 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 04:37 pm 96

Let’s see… softballgirl10… there are only 5 seniors on the itawamba agricultural high softball team

Every one of these girls has a profile pic in a prom dress.

Morgan Taylor http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=sgm&id=1286760138

Stephanie Robinson (a “fan” of being anti gay marriage… she could be a contender) http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=sgm&id=510220735

Jasna Clay http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=sgm&id=507164575

Megan Johnson http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=sgm&id=1286760188

Andrea Davis http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=sgm&id=1458759437


kaskaide | Tuesday April 6, 2010 04:48 pm 97
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

You seem to ignore the statement you made about the students with learning disabilities (person first language. Remember they are PEOPLE who happen to have a disability) when called out on it.

I suggest in the future you be more mindful of the words you chose, as replying in anger only leads to greater troubles.

You may not truly have understood why the students with learning disabilities were left out of your party/prom-but the statement you make by saying “and i don’t understand the disabled kids stuff, we don’t even talk to them, so stop judging. they could have come to our prom if they wanted to.” sounds hurtful and I am sure if you asked the students with disabilities, they would confirm how truly hurtful it is for a fellow classmate to dismiss you in such a way. By not talking to them and then placing the blame on them by stating they could have come if they wanted-I think we find out the actual truth of how welcomed they really would have been to your gathering.

As for Lindsey Begley, while I disagree with the actions you and your classmates chose and I agree with @moralsandethics, that unfortunately your actions lacked integrity and reflect poorly more on your class, parents and school than they do Constance.
I wonder if Webster, Syracuse, or Ole Miss would want a student who succumbed to mob mentality and a mob that acted so brashly at that.

You do not have to like the life decisions someone else may make, you may not like how someone else behaves sometimes, heck you may just flat out no like someone for no real reason(not everyone is going to like you)but that does not mean they should be treated with any less dignity and respect.


Elliott | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:29 pm 98

Facebooked!

Awesome research Lisa.
What a rotten thing group-thing to do.
Years from now, these kids will remember their “prom” in shame.


Margaret | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:40 pm 99

Wow! FDL has been freeped by a bunch of bigoted high school kids! How funny. And disturbing.


Twain | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:41 pm 100
In response to begleg10 @ 8

I hope you plan to stay right there in Ms because your attitude will not be accepted in other places. I am originally from Ms and you make me ashamed. You don’t want to be thought of as hicks, then don’t act like it. I’m sure that you and your friends feel really proud that you “let her have her prom” – let her? Who the heck do you think you are? The entire state should be ashamed at what was done in your town….but they won’t be. They’ll think it just fine.


Margaret | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:44 pm 101

Run along children. Something that you don’t know is that the wise speak only of that which they know. Your meager and privileged life experiences are inconsequential and would be comical if you hadn’t used them to justify the hatred that you inherited from your parents and their bible. It’s better to remain silent and let people think that you are a fool rather than speak and remove all doubt.


brendon | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:46 pm 102

@kaskaide No need to taunt poor Lindsey further (who is part of the “mob mentality” now?) and imply her admission to college is in jeopardy.

As kittkat notes, admissions people do sometimes withdraw admission when circumstances warrant, but those examples are fairly egregious (kid gets expelled for cheating, etc.). This prom snub thing ain’t going to cut it unless the admissions office is rather venal and obsessed with political correctness; and you wouldn’t want to go to a school like that anyway. In fact if a school did withdraw an admission offer to Lindsey for simply defending the actions of her and her classmates (even if an unpopular action), that would become news itself. Not sure the school would want that.

The real problem isn’t the students; it’s the parents and Itawamba school administrators. Sadly, the students could have been a leading part of the solution, but they came up WAY short this time around.


RevBev | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:49 pm 103
In response to Elliott @ 98

Group-thing, yes. .but what about the attorney who lied and enabled? I am beyond shock////attorney ethics say to avoid even the appearance of impropriety….s/he lied in order to pull off a very cruel, probably illegal hoax that went against a sitting Judge. Where did that one go to Law School?


whoops | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:51 pm 104

I live in Mississippi and I am ashamed of these kids, but I am far more ashamed of their parents. But stupid is as stupid does. They are pitiful.


Margaret | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:51 pm 105
In response to RevBev @ 103

I’d be astonished if there isn’t a bar complaint filed against that attorney. If nothing else the judge should be furious.


Twain | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:52 pm 106
In response to whoops @ 104

The school officials and every member of the senior class should have their pictures on the front page of every newspaper in the US with the story of what they did. Snobby little twits.


Margaret | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:54 pm 107
In response to whoops @ 104

I agree. They are products of their upbringing as the unmitigated hate and the unwarranted arrogance eloquently illustrates. Still, I was a product of very religious and in many cases, narrow minded parents and had managed to throw off the worst of their influence by 13. I’m no better than anybody else, why can’t they be better than their upbringing as well?


klwalton | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:56 pm 108
In response to manray @ 35

Children learn to operate ethically by observing ethical behavior and by being called on unethical behavior. Too bad Lindsey’s parent are teaching her unethical behavior. But if she’s going to come in here and try to *defend* that behavior, she’s going to be called on it. With parents like hers, she’s not going to learn any other way.


Twain | Tuesday April 6, 2010 05:57 pm 109
In response to Margaret @ 107

They don’t have to. They will stay right there and continue this type of thing their entire lives. Smug, complacent, and lacking in any sort of caring for others. The attitude there is still amazing to me after all these years. I almost gag when I go back there.


TheLurkingMod | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:03 pm 110

Lisa Derrick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:03 pm 111

I hope Lindsey and other student do get accepted to colleges and universities out of state and they see more things and are exposed to other views and people.

And as the child of Southern woman, I gotta say, lay off the “hick” and other ad hominen comments. Like, really!

By being understanding and compassionate and acting with dignity and grace we set examples and encourage discourse and perhaps plant seeds of change. And no matter what, by doing so we don’t look like morans


Elliott | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:04 pm 112
In response to RevBev @ 103

good point, the lawyer’s a disgrace. I still think, in time, that most of the kids will regret showing their mean side.


Elliott | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:06 pm 113
In response to Twain @ 106

That’s what so wonderful about Lisa exposing them – and this post circulating on Facebook.

She did a lot of research for this, she and her dog ;)


Twain | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:07 pm 114
In response to Elliott @ 112

Unfortunately, they won’t regret it. They will be laughing about this until they are 75 years old.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:08 pm 115

Also, I would like to thank the students who came here to express their views. It reflects on FDL’s strength to put principles before politics and personalities. Our online community is smart and overall compassionate even when impassioned.


Twain | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:11 pm 116
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 115

Lisa, I am so pleased that you wrote about this. Bigotry has to be “outed” and you did a great job. If just one person learns a lesson from this, it will be a good thing. Believe me, I do feel passionate about this.


Teddy Partridge | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:14 pm 117
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

and i don’t understand the disabled kids stuff, we don’t even talk to them, so stop judging. they could have come to our prom if they wanted to.

Oh
My
God

You poor child, you can’t even read what you wrote, or understand it.


robspierre | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:15 pm 118

One has to wonder exactly what sort of “values” these pious parents think that they are teaching their offspring. Honesty? No, not that. Common courtesy? No. Anything vaguely Christian? Absolutely not. Respect for the laws and Constitution? Well, no.

On the other hand, thinking back on my own prom, the joke is no doubt on those parents. The nine kids at the country club probably had the better time. After all, the riff-raff (usually known as “popular” kids) were all elsewhere.


ProgThis | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:23 pm 119
In response to begleg10 @ 8

**Open Minded Readers Only**

I don’t think that means what you think it means.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:24 pm 120

BTW, this just in


Authorities investigating suspicious packages left for Itawamba County School Board members

by Adam Armour/The Itawamba County Times

Authorities with the Itawamba County Sheriff’s Department and Tupelo Police Department are investigating a series of suspicious packages left at the office and homes of three Itawamba County School Board members.

According to Itawamba County Sheriff Chris Dickinson, bags of sugar with notes attached were found this afternoon at the homes of Clara Brown and Tony Wallace, and at the office of Eddie Hood in the Tupelo West Main Shopping Center.

Dickinson said there have yet to be any reports of packages left at the homes of Jackie Nichols and Harold Martin, board members for second and third districts respectively.

“We think it may be some form of threat,” Dickinson said. If captured, the perpetrator or perpetrators will face charges of malicious mischief.

Authorities have not released the contents of the notes left with the bags of sugar, but according to WTVA, Tupelo police have contacted the FBI.

Leaving sugar? Trying to sweeten their sour minds?


Spotts1701 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:25 pm 121
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

No, I have not been to your school. I have not been to your town.

But I knew what it was like to be the “weird” kid. I knew what it was like to be shunned by the “cool” kids because I didn’t like what they liked or did what they did.

It hurts, and you know what? Years later, many of the kids who behaved that way grew up into adults who realized that they treated a classmate rather shabbily. Some even apologized for their conduct, and I forgave them.

I wonder, when you have had the benefit of a few more years on this Earth, will you realize that maybe you should not have been so shabby towards another? Will you have the humility to apologize and hope for forgiveness?

Or will you continue down this blissful ignorant path you are on now? Because I tell you this – no good will come of it.

Because, for the moment, you have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.


ProgThis | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:25 pm 122
In response to ProgThis @ 119

Can’t edit our own posts?

**Open Minded Readers Only**

I don’t think that means what you think it means.


Hannibal | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:37 pm 123

It’s a pretty odd defense those two gave. That Constance ruined their senior year. One person. Not a person who was a bully, or a criminal, certainly not an Eric Harris or Dyland Klebold. Just a girl who in their words, was a drama queen. Which makes her just like 99.99% of high school girls, but so be it. One drama queen ruined their senior year of high school. This is their defense.

Have fun in the real world, kids.


angiedange | Tuesday April 6, 2010 06:44 pm 124

I am from the deep south. My family is from the south. I dont think southerners are ignorant hicks, I just think the town of Fulton, MS is.

To Softball and Begleg: The students and their parents will someday be deeply ashamed and embarrassed at these actions. So what if you dont like her? That doesnt give you license to be a bigot. Dont you get it? What the people of the town of Fulton and the students of that high school are too stupid to grasp is that if Jesus saw them treat people this way, his heart would be broken. You’ve offended every Christian in America by trying to claim that you are one. The whole town is HATEFUL and MEAN.


Username | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:15 pm 125

begleg10, softballgirl10: If you want the public to understand your argument, you need to share some examples. You claim she’s an attention seeker who may just pretending to be a lesbian for more attention. Your only support for this claim, excluding the prom, is a hypothetical that she’d wear a police siren on her head.


AZ Matt | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:17 pm 126
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 120

You would need sugar by the trailer load to do that. I have family in the Bible Belt South too. Thankful that my mother moved to California or I might talk with an accent!


Seymour Friendly | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:17 pm 127

Definitely, the fake prom has got to be one of the lowest blows the town could have done.

It’s ok, most of these people are related to each other anyway, even if they have marital obligations to each other as well that would seem otherwise … inconsistent with the familial obligations.


Larue | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:18 pm 128
In response to Margaret @ 99

Hi Margaret, I’m not sure I’m very kewl with this either. I have a GREAT deal of discomfort with it, and I’m not sure I can adequately explain my discomfort . . . . . I’m pro Constance all the way in this issue, but I’m not sure about the extent this has gone into the progressive blogosphere. For me, my concern is kids v. adults blogging issues, and potential blowbacks that might cause harm to all. Pro LGBT, anti LGBT.

To give a forum to this issue is one thing, to give a forum for what appears to be 95% names and innuendo ‘I Told You So’ people I’ve never seen at Lisa’s or FDL? . . . . for high schoolers and every other freeper to join in?
I don’t know . . . simply don’ know, but feel I have to point it out.

I AM happy to see an overwhelming amount of support for Constance and the LGBT community, but these are KIDS!!!!! They have NO idea what the adult world holds for them, quite yet. Many of them, gay or not, will have new found realities and experiences as they leave high school. Sure, they have high school realities to hold to for their experience, but that’s quickly eradicated in the post high school world! Mine were, from what I read, most others were also?????

Some of them, the homophobe seniors who did this with the help of their parents and their community, might suffer from this due to their overt participation on twitter and Facebook. Jobs and colleges will be lost, and their parents praised in the home town and deriled outside it. Big losses for all! (I am torn with joy and guilt for feeling that joy).

And frankly, now that the girls of the softball team are outed with pics, what’s to prevent some homophobe loon plan to target one of them, and blame it on the LGBT community?

I’ve got one SOLID consideration and thing holding me back from being critical of this thread.

There are times in history when all rules are thrown out, and all the reality is what it is.

Like Rosa’s Bus Ride. Like Ghandi. Like JFK. His assassination, MLK and his. Bobby’s. The loss of Michael, Andrew And James. The AW Era to stop Vietnam. The coal miners of the 20′s/30′s. The labor of the 20′s/30′s.

Womens rights. Civil Rights. Gay Rights.

Sometimes, the rules are all broken for the event of the day.

Is this event one such, in our history of progressive advancements?

I can’t answer that, I’m not gay.

So, LGBT, is this such an event? Like Stonewall? Is this a black Watts/Detroit? Is this the trigger? Or is it just an event over used by everyone?

I gotta admit, I’m confused on this, but I’m also now exposed Lisa, thanks to your post, to things I’ve never had to consider.

So don’t hate me, FDL, I’m confused. And at my age, it seems it happens more and more often, and I’m sure of less and less anymore, compared to what was etched in stone, when I was 18. I think my prom was a hippie dance and Jesse Colin Young And The Youngbloods played. ’71, San Mateo, CA. *G*

I don’t get the limo’s and costs, I really don’t. Never did. Course, I never had that money to blow, either.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:22 pm 129
In response to Seymour Friendly @ 127

Please, comments like that make the person saying them look bad.


Twain | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:26 pm 130
In response to Larue @ 128

These are not “just kids.” They are 17 and 18 years old. I knew right from wrong at that age and I’m sure you did, too. They did a terrible thing because of ONE person. They have all contributed to the reputation of their town and their state and it was bad enough already. If someone hates you because you are gay that’s their right (although I don’t understand it) but once that person makes a move against you, all bets are off. These “kids” need a good lesson in humility.


newtonusr | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:26 pm 131
In response to Seymour Friendly @ 127

ugly


Username | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:30 pm 132

And frankly, now that the girls of the softball team are outed with pics, what’s to prevent some homophobe loon plan to target one of them, and blame it on the LGBT community?

Huh? What pics.


alank | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:35 pm 133

I imagine SP will launch her 2012 bid there. They’re just so mavericky*.

* 1. mavericky

An adjective used to describe an action that may not make any sense, but is definitely different.
John McCain, realizing he was down in the polls, needed to do something mavericky so he refused to participate in the first presidential debate.
maverick debate mccain obama stupid

2. Mavericky

Adjective. A description of someone who portrays themselves as an independent thinker, an outsider, when they actually act independently of facts to maintain the status quo.
You: She comes off as an approachable, independent person but I don’t think she’s stated a single fact.

Me: Yeah, she’s real mavericky, makes me want to agree with her just to see the damage she’ll do.

politician maverick joe sixpack hockey mom liar

3. Mavericky

A bold, defiant action. Depending on the situation, maverickiness can seem like a desperate ploy that wreaks of inauthentic desperation. Associated with Republican presidential candidate John McCain and his equally mavericky running mate Sarah Palin

“What! There is an economic crisis. It is time to get mavericky in this bitch.”

4. mavericky

To spoil or ruin by foolishly attempting to be a maverick.

Sarah Palin wants to get all mavericky on America.

5. Mavericky

The action of applying maverick-like principles.

John McCain and I arn’t afraid to get mavericky!
~Sarah Palin


shell | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:37 pm 134

I grew up in Oklahoma and it wasn’t this bad. Our town had 10,000 people and several girls dated blacks. (This was 1969-1971. In OK, that is like 1959-61.) But I can tell you the mindset. They have a mixture of superiority and inferiority. These states know the rest of the country makes fun of them, so they do their best to do the opposite of what the progressive states do. Called “flyover states?” They act like that is what they WANT. Trust me — they will NOT feel ashamed at what they did, even if every news show puts this story on. (The Chamber of Commerce and other tourism places are different — $$ trumps all!) They revel in this, because it is all they have.


CalmingInfluence | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:44 pm 135
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

“you don’t know me and you don’t know the people who raised me and you DON’T KNOW CONSTANCE. this isn’t about bigotry i don’t care if she’s actually a lesbian.”

First, I won’t try to lay bigoted or prejudiced motives on what you and Lindsey did. You say your difficulty with her is not that she’s a lesbian, but that she’s an attention-seeking jerk, and I have no reason not to take your word for it (you’ve both said that in comments here; I’ll withhold judgment on the rest of your classmates).

What amazes me is that you apparently had only one attention-seeking jerk in your entire graduating class. I don’t have actual statistics to cite here, but I’d guess that in the average high school in the U.S. (or in any human demographic for that matter) attention-seeking jerks comprise about 15-20% of the total. That certainly was the case in my high-school.

And here’s the problem: are you sure everyone thinks you’re teh awesome? Suppose a group of people thought you were an attention-seeking jerk for commenting here? Even if you have no problem with lesbians, you do have a problem with people who are different.

Your school pulled a shitty stunt on someone you didn’t like, and now you’re trying to say it wasn’t really shitty because it was Constance’s fault, because she’s an asshole.

Suprise! There’s more than one asshole in your school.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:45 pm 136
In response to alank @ 133

Actually I hope Palin speaks out. BECAUSE TWO LEARNING DISABLED STUDENTS WERE SENT TO THE FAKE PROM.

If Rahm Emmanuel can get rake over the coals for saying “retarded”, I sure as sugar hope Sister Sarah has a few words with the good folks of Fulton. Her principles are at stake here!


thurbers | Tuesday April 6, 2010 07:59 pm 137
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

and to @begleg10:

Time to grow up and really think. Much as you dislike Constance, she didn’t cause the media uproar, nor did she cancel your original prom. Small minded adults did that. Just as those small minded adults, apparently some of whom are your parents don’t get that they don’t get to judge Constance or deny her her rights because they don’t like her.

What if they didn’t think you should play softball? Or that women shouldn’t go to college or even school? There was a time that was the case. Just as there was a time when you couldn’t vote. I’m sure a lot of people thought Susan B. Anthony was downright annoying. Your rights shouldn’t be dependent on others good opinion of you as a person or their religion. Because their religion might not be yours, why should it get to decide what you can and cannot do with your life.

The problem is that you let your dislike of Constance blind YOU to the reason your school became a subject of media interest. It wasn’t her desire to go to the prom in a tuxedo or with a same gender date – it was the decisions of your school board to let their bigotry trump Constance’s rights – and even if you do not see it yours. If the prom had gone as originally scheduled, you would have had hung with your friends, danced, some of you probably would have attempted to spike your punch, and some would have engaged in sexual activity in dark corners or cars. You would have noticed Constance and her date and made comments, and then probably would have ignored her. AS it should have been.

Obnoxious to you or not, Constance stood up for her rights, and that was courageous. To paraphrase a movie I love, you have to accept that acknowledging that everyone has rights means that sometimes you are going to have to allow NeoNazi Holocaust deniers to march through a Jewish community. Recognizing that freedom means that others are going to annoy you by actually thinking and living differently is hard, making sure that they are treated the same as you despite that is even harder.

Sadly, you didn’t manage that. But that is only to be expected, because the people who should have been teaching you that, the leaders of your community and your parents decided that the law, freedom and even Do Unto Others were secondary to their fear and bigotry.


cinnamonape | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:00 pm 138

I’m wondering if any college in America would want graduates from this school attending their Universities and spreading their intolerant hateful venom through Sports teams, dormitories, fraternal/sorral organizations, or Student government.

Itawamba Seniors and their Parents….you have likely tainted the opportunities of students from your High School for decades. Certainly it will raise the eyebrows of admissions directors whenever they see the name.

Of course, if a student formed an organization to end such discrimination and other students belonged to it, and wrote an essay about how they fought against such hate…then it might be looked upon favorably as a “leadership” criteria.

But who would want a “sheep” from the student government, or an athlete, or a journalism major from such a place?


4rightchords | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:04 pm 139

Great sleuthing, Lisa, but I decided to try softball’s name as her FB username, and found yet another fan of “I’m Proud To Be Christian” by Aaron Chavez Religious Center… making me wonder if our winner is one Ms. Christina Skipper.

Christina/whoever you might be, you’ve lost all faith in the media. Lindsey wants to be part of it. Kinda amusing to me.

That said, the key thing you posted is that you “don’t even talk to” the disabled teens at your school. As if that somehow excuses your behaviour, or their exclusion as well. What you, Lindsey Begley and the rest of the private prom attendees have done is used Constance McMillen’s sexuality as an excuse to engage in the sort of clique-driven behaviour most spiteful, self-centred teens wish they could get away with at their schools: excluding the “losers” from social events. No one would tolerate a prom that didn’t invite all students, hosted by a school, but you took full advantage of the private party prom the school board created, and its ability to be exclusive (that, by the way, implies by nature it can be exclusionary), and decided to not only shun that “obnoxious” lesbian, but all of the other kids you snicker over at lunch.

Newsflash: real life doesn’t work this way. And someday, you will be the unwanted one. Worse, maybe your daughter or son will just not fit in, be it because of weight, looks, sexuality, or any other reason teens choose to hate each other. You will remember your cowardice and excuses – because you will hear them from the next generation of hateful people. And then you will have to explain your history, on the internet for all to find, to that child.

I feel sorry for every single one of you for being raised so closed-minded, and being so completely the opposite of what a true Christian would be.


rospo25 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:09 pm 140

I know for a fact that bigotry is not exclusively the domain of the South. I grew up in a small town in Alaska, where the views held are conservative, religious, and closed-minded. When I was in high school, I tried to buy a couples’ ticket to prom for myself and another girl. I was refused, saying that same sex couples were not allowed at the prom and that they wouldn’t sell couples’ tickets to people of the same sex. Now, I dropped the matter and let it go, not because I didn’t care, but because I wasn’t dating the girl I planned on going to the prom with using the couples’ ticket, we were trying to save some money because the couples’ tickets were cheaper than the single tickets.

However, had I been in a relationship with this person, I would have certainly made a stand and demanded that my civil liberties be respected. This is also a school that advocates prayer on school property, where teachers have been known to lay hands on students, and where at least one teacher home school’s his children because he feels the education at the school is below par. I grew up with the taunts of dyke, lesbo, and other less than clever appellations. I even had one guy make up the lovely moniker “Pat,” based on the character from SNL due to my androgynous appearance and unwillingness to bow down to social pressure to “go with the flow.” I was inspired by a recent story of a ten-year-old boy in Alabama who refuses to say the pledge of allegiance because, in his opinion, until the line “with liberty and justice for all” is actually true, he refuses to mouth lies just for the sake of appeasing the school district with blind recitation. I can only hope that more like this intelligent and socially conscious young man exist in the up-coming generations, because, based on some of the replies in this thread, there seems to be lacking a basic sense of decency and fairness as it relates to society.


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:11 pm 141
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Kid you can’t defend your freedom by denying an other’s right to be acknowledged as a human being by not going to her Prom. Don’t you see the contradiction either you are both Human and deserving of respect or neither of you are.
Your Freedom stops where an other Human Beings Freedom begins. You would know that if you went to a real public school not a school run by anti Gay Bible thumpers.
Just try getting into your first choice college with Fulton Miss on your transcript. Colleges don’t want Gay Bashers getting their colleges into Gay Bashing beating Lawsuits the more famous a college is the more important their Rep is.
Accepting Gay Students trumps admitting Gay Bashers.

Being Open Minded means agreeing to look at both sides it does not make us Saps. We look at both sides equally and weigh the wrongs.
Somehow a girl wanting to wear a tux at a Dance with the girl she loves sounds like the plot to a film I don’t see how her actions harmed your school in anyway?
What you all thought your dates would turn Gay at the sight of this Lesbian Queen of Heaven in a Tux? Did you fear your dates would all leave you if they saw her?
Show me the harm her going to Prom would do? Would her going have made you uncomfortable would it have made you embarrassed that people would talk?
Well guess what Genius for the rest of your life mention Fulton Miss and Prom and everyone from your generation will know for the rest of your life.
You will make everyone around you uncomfortable and yes people will talk.


Twain | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:12 pm 142
In response to 4rightchords @ 139

You have to love their certainty that they are Christians and that theirs is a Christian town. Not like any I’ve ever seen.


4rightchords | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:17 pm 143
In response to Twain @ 142

I know, right?

I happen to be Pagan, have been for half my life. I have several extremely Christian friends who have no qualms with that, let alone my bisexuality or my interracial relationships. They don’t care because they truly ‘love thy neighbour’ and believe in treating all people as they wish to be treated, not just the ones they like.

God is not hatred. Neither was Jesus. Jesus went to the lepers, dear children of Fulton. He didn’t send them to a different gathering, as you did with those you considered social lepers. Maybe you ought to try reading that Bible once more?


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:20 pm 144
In response to Twain @ 142

Funny Christ hung out with fallen Women and Tax collectors treated them with respect and never asked them to change.
Christ goes into the Money Changers Temple and knocks over tables. Christ tell the Rich they got less chance of getting to Heaven than a Camel has of going through the eye of a needle.
Christ’s sermon on Loose or Lesbian Girls or even tax collectors where is that just what Bible are these folks reading?


supersleuth | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:23 pm 145

If you Google softballgirl10, “Megan Johnson” comes up on page 3 or 4 on some random site. And you can see from her Facebook wall that she and her friends made shirts that said things like, “I’m straight, so sue me,” and, “No prom, thanks Constance,” and wore them to school. So that would be my guess as to who she is.


amyb | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:25 pm 146

Matthew 25:31–Come on all you Christian kids, you should know this one–”Whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me.” Do you suppose Christ would have been in favor of your sneaky plan to exclude the least of YOUR brethren?


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:44 pm 147

These Christian Kids can brag about how their lives Peaked at their Highschool Prom. Al and Peg Bundies in the making.
Their Grand Parents marched against school desegregation and now we have an African American President who is smarter than anyone on the GOP side

(Obama Debate House Republicans)

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/29/obama.gop/

Sarah Palin Katie Couric

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRkWebP2Q0Y&feature=related

I fully expect a Gay President quite soon a Gay President who will mention Fulton Miss along with Laramie Wy.


sddave | Tuesday April 6, 2010 08:55 pm 148

LOL! Lindsey apparently has taken people’s advice, she has shut down her wall. LMAO!


cracytracy | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:13 pm 149

As a Mississippian, I would like to ask all of you to not judge Mississippi on the poor judgements and actions of certain people. Mississippi has a history filled with hate that a lot of us have tried to fight against, only to have others promote it as if it is the latest fashion trend! I am a Mississippi-born and raised female and a Christian, and I am truly appalled by all of the people involved with this horrible display of prejudicial hated! Mississippi is known as being part of the Bible Belt, and a Christian state. However, the actions of those involved with this fiasco have not displayed the values of Christ, for which I am truly sorry. John 3:23 states “And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.” God and Jesus Christ do not love us for who we could be, or who we should be, but for who we are. To add to this, it is no one’s place to judge other people’s life styles except God and Jesus Christ, and I HAVE been to Fulton, Mississippi. Last time I checked, it wasn’t Heaven! While I am quite sure there are Christians there, you couldn’t tell it from the latest problems to come from there.

And let me shock you a little bit…I have many homosexual friends, of whom I am proud to call my friends, and whom I love deeply! I have no problem with their life style, as they have no problem with me being heterosexual! I could go on for DAYS as to why the train of thought coming out of the IAHS train station is so off track as to what God intended, and how men on earth have distorted what was in the original manuscripts of the Bible, but I won’t bore you. All I will say, to any prejudicial “open-minded” people out there, is to research your history and beliefs. You will see they are not what you thought they were. And please dwell on my favorite quote from Gandhi: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Christ told us to love one another, not hate. That is how we should live our lives, even if you aren’t Christian, but especially if you are.


newtonusr | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:15 pm 150
In response to cracytracy @ 149

Not so cracy after all, Tracy.
Welcome.
My maternal peeps are from Panola County.


sdpty | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:17 pm 151

Lyndsey and SoftballGirl10 made a choice. A choice to go to the Prom they thought was going to be the best Prom experience for them. As teens, it is likely they were looking out for themselves, incapable of looking at a big picture. Disappointing, but understandable, as anyone who’s been a teenager could likely attest.
Like anyone who’s ever made bad choices in high school knows, those choices come with consequences. All over the internet, the larger society is weighing in on the choice these students made, and on this particular site, most reflect disapproval of a choice seen as incredibly discriminatory. This is part of the social consequence of this decision. Lyndsey and SoftballGirl10 are addressing these social consequences, from people all over the country. They are re-examining their choices and trying to make sense of them to others, and perhaps even to themselves.
As intelligent young women/teens, they are most likely realizing how their choice for “their” best experience may have compromised who they want to be as moral individuals coming into adulthood. Or maybe not. I hope they will continue with these explanations and interactions with people outside their small community on the internet. Hopefully, they will not get hung up on the anger people feel toward their choice, but rather use these alternate perspectives to look at the situation differently as they honestly review their choices.
Perhaps, they will honestly discuss with other open-minded students, the implications of their recent choices upon their school, their local community, and their region. I wish this for both these young women/teens and I have hope for them, as they have CHOSEN to speak in these public forums, which tells me they are perhaps up for reconsidering the choices they have made.


sdpty | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:18 pm 152

The real CHOICE came from the adult community…the PARENTS who coordinated this “Party/Prom.” They weren’t creative, but they were effective in their promotion of discrimination to a new generation of teens. Just 100+ miles southeast in Birmingham, 45 years earlier, efforts were made to exclude a young black woman from the school Prom and they, too were successful. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XSAfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qacEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6862,5131613 Perhaps it IS best not to poke fun at the choices of the individual people of that region…after all, Constance’s parents must have been doing something right. However, ongoing regional approaches to discrimination toward “others” come prom season don’t seem to have changed much in 45 years. This solution SOMEHOW drifted 100+ miles to the west over 45 years, with no change. These ideas don’t change….people change them. Unfortunately, some adults in the community apparently relied on old solutions to problems, having learned nothing from their history. They CHOSE to stick with the time-honored tradition of discrimination. The consequence of which will be the perpetuation of discrimination to a new generation of Americans in the region. This is the CHOICE these adults made for their children, their community and their country, ironically, on the anniversary of the death of their moral guide, Jesus Christ.

Now, these teens are faced with new choices. Do they perpetuate this discrimination and the deceit exemplified by their role models? Or will they choose to be a part of putting an end to this kind of mistreatment of others within their communities as they go forward in life. Unfortunately, there is a culture of discrimination in their region that previous generations have not chosen to eradicate. Constance stood up to this discrimination and CHOSE not to be discriminated against. Now will Lyndsey and Softballgirl10 and the other students complicit in this deceptive ruse of discrimination perpetuate this for yet another generation? Will they choose moral guidance beyond just that of the adults in their small community and defy these teachings and choose a more kindly approach in future treatment of their neighbors in coming generations? Will their choices reflect the adults they want to be to their brothers, sisters, children, parents and neighbors when they come out to them as gay, or pregnant, or desperate in some way? This is a time for new choices and I hope Lyndsey and Softballgirl10 and the other students of Itawamba Agricultural High School make their subsequent choices in favor of ending regional discrimination rather than perpetuating it After all, it often only takes one person making the right choice to move that change along….just ask Constance.


cracytracy | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:35 pm 153
In response to newtonusr @ 150

Hi, newtonusr!! I’m from one county over – Lafayette! Very small world! :)


newtonusr | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:38 pm 154
In response to cracytracy @ 153

Ah, 55 to 278 East.


cracytracy | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:44 pm 155

LOL Very good!! Obviously you know what we in Lafayette county have had to deal with in the past concerning our haunting history of hatred, so I have no problem speaking out about injustices and hatred when I see it! Hopefully we can help other generations from dealing with it as frequently as people have to now.


4rightchords | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:47 pm 156
In response to supersleuth @ 145

Well played! I think we have a winner!


Bluetoe2 | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:47 pm 157

What’s the surprise? It’s Mississippi. Wasn’t that long ago when the “good” citizens of Mississippi would either decorate the trees or reinforce earthen dams with those they didn’t “cotton to.”


newtonusr | Tuesday April 6, 2010 09:48 pm 158
In response to cracytracy @ 155

Yes, and I also know that Byron De La Beckwith was finally convicted of Medgar Evers murder very close by.

It is still the South, but it is not THAT South.


misswildthing | Tuesday April 6, 2010 10:26 pm 159

To the softballer
two points to make here.

Say you get to keep playing softball after high school. Say you get to play at a really high level like say the Olympics. What do you do if the pitcher who is going to throw the gold medal game is a lesbian? What do you do when she finds out about your behavior and prejudice against lesbians? She goes to the coach and says either I pitch or she plays but I will not at with her ever again. Now what do you do? Yell at your team for not backing you up?

How about if you have an ongoing softball injury and only the trainer can help you? Your trainer is a lesbian. Now what do you do? What if she won’t help you cus she saw you in that lovely frock that said sue me I’m straight?

See how this comes back to bite you in the ass?

And a little something to think about. If god didn’t want any gay people in the world there wouldn’t be any. So go ahead. Give me a quote from the bible on what Jesus said about gay people. I will wait here.


meglanker | Tuesday April 6, 2010 10:34 pm 160

For Lindsey (begleg10): [I posted both comments on another site] http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2010/04/05/wheres-constance-photos-from-a-private-proms/

For God’s sake, lock down your FB… I can’t keep laughing at the hypocrisy.

“Lindsey Begley won’t you save me, san fransisco?
February 22 at 6:37pm”

No, sweetie, the Castro district will eat you alive if you’re scared of Constance.

Asking about the “parent prom” a few weeks ago was classy. Especially when you claim this wasn’t prom.

I’m a freelance journalist, and I can tell you, IF you ever become a journalist, people who disagree with you are going to dig this up and use it to discredit whatever you write. If you write that puppies and kittens are fluffy, I guarantee, someone will disagree with you, post these old comments, and say, “What does she know, she’s just a bigot.”

Whatever you meant before in the heat of emotion is what is actually deep down in your soul – or lack thereof. Your second comment reeks of getting slapped down by someone and told to apologize, and I don’t mean anyone here.

The damage is done, my dear. The internet and fast food grease traps have something in common – neither can ever be scrubbed 100% clean.

Oh, God, these kids are killing me!

Chanda Davis had the best night ever, kinda awkward with mom and dad, but it was amazing :) love my girls! kinda scared of what pictures might pop up on facebook…
April 2 at 11:35pm

Sarah Beth bahaha, I was making fun of someone dancing and I saw someone take a picture of me!
Sat at 3:48pm

Chanda Davis hahahaha nice
Sat at 5:01pm

James Colin Chatham “Thanks to the ACLU, Itawamba county is more advanced than the rest of the world… Our world is ending two years earlier!”
March 13 at 12:39pm via Text Message
5 people like this.

Carol-Leigh Harvey what?
March 13 at 12:46pm

Shelby Bierig hahahah, just couldn’t stand to wait for 2012
March 13 at 12:52pm

James Colin Chatham IMO…..I think this Prom controversy is absolutely ridiculous! Just because people want publicity, my senior year has been riddled with bias news reports and slanderous accusations. In Fulton, straight people are the majority. What has happened to our principles of democracy this nation was founded on?
March 10 at 4:39pm
27 people like this.

(Yeah, so are white people, dude. Didn’t stop desegregation)

Stephanie Leigh Robinson Boy who wanted to be a girl, no prom, what else does a small town to become famous? Oh yea gays ruining our seniore year.
March 11 at 3:11pm via Text Message
(Your school board did that…)

Rebecca Cleveland
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=203565&id=510421339&ref=mf
Prom 2010
By:Rebecca Cleveland
Photos:49
(This is the straight, non-disabled people private prom)

Abby Rodgers Romans 1:26.. this is a GOOD one!!
March 11 at 8:49pm
3 people like this.
(This verse is used to justify hatred of homosexuals: The text reads [in the King James Version]:

Romans 1:26-27: “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet.”)

Carli Madison
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=209255&id=632670866
Prom 2010! :)
39 new photos
Sun at 3:56pm · Share

Martha Duncan Awesome pictures.
Yesterday at 9:54am

Katelyn Senter
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=11893933&id=567645226
Prom! 2010:)
Yesterday at 6:58pm

Katelyn joined the group NO THANK YOU – Constance McMillen.
(The comments are hilarious)
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=361015830355

This group keeps popping up:

Name:Proudly Supports School Board Decision
Category:Common Interest – Activities
Description: Dont try to push because we push back
Privacy Type: Closed: Limited public content. Members can see all content.

(Well, we push back, too.)

And I’m spent.


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday April 6, 2010 10:51 pm 161

Any bets in 20 years these kids will all joke about how silly they were and shallow? Or at their 20 year high school reunion will they brag that now they can finally have their Prom free of Press? Lets see how the future turns out? I’m hopeful.


lucytravers | Tuesday April 6, 2010 11:30 pm 162
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

My dear, I don’t know Constance. Thank goodness for that. It sounds like she does have a reputation for stirring up the pot in your school. I’d find her a distraction, most definitely. I went to a very small high school in the boondocks, and had to deal with people like her, who would do anything to be the center of attention.

But THAT’S LIFE. There are people who you’re going to dislike where ever you go. Weird people with weird clothing who you will have to look at. No matter what you say, the law states that she’s fully in her rights to flaunt her sexual preference at a high school prom. And I’m damn glad that she did go to the ACLU, that this has made a ton of news, because it’ll remind schools in the future the backlash of denying someone their first amendment rights. She’s plowing the way so that in the future, homosexuals won’t be excluded from such rites of passage as the prom.

You can dislike Constance all you want. But to place blame on her for the fact that you had a bad year is like committing domestic abuse and blaming your violence on the person you hit. It doesn’t fly and your credibility really goes downhill.

Oh and about that “nobody ever talks to them” comment did not win you any favor. It may just be true that your school is the meanest school in the USA. Here’s to hoping you don’t have grand plans to take on the world after you graduate, because with this attitude, you’re gonna have a very difficult time.


sugarspun | Wednesday April 7, 2010 12:10 am 163
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

“nobody talks to them … they could have come to our prom if they’d wanted to.”

How, exactly, could they have found out about your invitation-only secret prom? I’ve been thinking about this, and I wonder if they were accidentally excluded. Perhaps you just assumed that they knew because you did – but how did you know? How did your friends know?

It isn’t a much better prospect than deliberate exclusion, is it? Not one of you, when renting tuxes and shopping for dresses and hiring limos and planning afterparties and plotting to spike the punch, was able to step outside your selfish little bubbles and wonder if the kids who aren’t part of your clique might not have been told that there was a change of plan and the straight kids (plus the ones still in the closet) would be partying elsewhere.

My prom was closed down at 10:30pm after a girl had a seizure and was taken away by ambulance. Nobody blamed her for ruining the night, although she cost a few guys their tux rental deposit when she knocked red wine all over them. This girl was quite unpopular – perhaps like Constance, she was loud and mouthy and constantly trying to be the center of attention. But what happened wasn’t her fault and so we didn’t blame her, we simply camped out in a McDonalds and begged them to turn up the music. I like the analogy of domestic violence: you’re blaming Constance because her rights were infringed rather than blaming the people who infringed them.

(@ others, I’ve been lurking for some time; this piece and some of the comments made me go to the trouble of registering. I apologise if I’m naughtily freeping.)


goto100 | Wednesday April 7, 2010 12:22 am 164
In response to AZ Matt @ 1

That was very cruel. These people are heartless.

No Matt. They’re homophobic, (and probably racist) bigots.


azportsider | Wednesday April 7, 2010 02:37 am 165
In response to Elliott @ 98

Elliott,

I seriously doubt that they’ll ever feel any shame. Introspection doesn’t seem to be their strength.


CherryTheTart | Wednesday April 7, 2010 04:06 am 166
In response to amyb @ 13

Oh, and when you brag about being one of the top schools in Mississippi–that sound you hear is the rest of the country laughing our asses off.

God’s truth.


bobroberts | Wednesday April 7, 2010 04:25 am 167

There’s no excuse. Shame on everyone involved, especially the “grown-ups”.


azportsider | Wednesday April 7, 2010 05:02 am 168
In response to begleg10 @ 8

“IAHS is one of the top schools in the state…”

Let me see here…Yes, one of the top schools in a state that ranks an abysmal 50th out of 50 states. That’s sort of like being the tallest Munchkin, isn’t it?


Quebecois | Wednesday April 7, 2010 05:05 am 169

Lindsey and Softballgirl,

Blaming constance is ludicrous. She was the abusee, you, your parents and the school board are the abusers. In short, your parents, your teachers lied to you and you bought it. They are wrong, and so are you. It’s scary to look at oneself, and admitting that what you’ve been thought all your life is a lie. We don’t hate you, we see you coming from miles away, we understand where you are coming from. What you did to the challenged kids, to Constance and her girlfriend is hateful. You’ll never hear this enough, even if you don’t want to. Chances are that you are already too far gone, you won’t question yourself and evolve. I don’t think you’ll ever grow from this experience, you’ll only blame the others…


lasinva | Wednesday April 7, 2010 05:25 am 170

The IAHS girls, Lindsey and Softballgirl, wandering in here to FLD forums to share their opinions of our opinions about their behavior would be the rough equivalent of Constance going to IAHS’s gathering spot to share hers about their private prom to avoid sharing space LD kids and Constance and her same sex date…Oh, except IAHS won’t tell Constance where they are gathering…


lasinva | Wednesday April 7, 2010 05:27 am 171
In response to lasinva @ 170

…and we were pretty polite in our responses to them…


dhfsfc | Wednesday April 7, 2010 05:30 am 172

1. Lindsey Begley is ugly and has a face like a horse.

2. Almost all of her “friends” are FAT! And they are too stupid to know that when you are that “big-boned,” you really shouldn’t wear a strapless dress. It makes you look like a linebacker!

3. The few girls that are even vaguely normal body-types also look like total sluts!

4. The moms are OBESE!

5. The dresses are cheap looking, and I would bet didn’t cost more than $100!

6. The boys look stupid!

See? I can play too!


brendanscalling | Wednesday April 7, 2010 05:33 am 173

I ordinarily don’t call out teenagers, but begleg, that is just about the weakest self-defense I have ever read. You and your classmates ought to be ashamed of yourselves, and I predict that once you leave that podunk redneck town you’ve grown up in, you will.
But while you and your friends are clearly a bunch of rotten, spoiled brats with an entitlement complex, it’s your parents who are truly to blame, for rewarding bigotry and exclusion.

I hop every single one of you rotten children has gay kids. Every single one of you. Then YOU will know what it’s like when YOUR child is treated like shit. And I guarantee you, you will not like it one little bit.


jgoodman24 | Wednesday April 7, 2010 06:06 am 174

This is so ridiculous. Mississippi just can’t help itself. We have to always be the laughing stock of America no matter what. It’s like it’s written into our DNA! Not everyone in Mississippi is as retarded and simple-minded as these rednecks. Constance, get out while you can and never turn back. Proms (and Mississippi) have always and will always suck.


tissuedigester | Wednesday April 7, 2010 06:08 am 175

I think we should lay off Begleg a bit. She and her friends behaved like…well, spoiled teenagers, and that’s what they are. Keep in mind that she’s still a teenager who’s main influences have been that of homophobic parents, a homophobic town, and a homophobic school administration.

Lindsey, I sincerely hope that you grow up to be the journalist that you dream of becoming, and that in the process of doing so you open your eyes to more of the world and realize how wrong and cruel this “fake” prom was. I hope as you grow up that you learn that gays are every bit as wonderful and valid as straight people, and that life is too precious to waste any of it hating.

The school administration and parents, however, should definitely be held accountable. They should have known better, and I hope they are crucified in the hands of the law.


snoofie | Wednesday April 7, 2010 06:38 am 176
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Begleg10:

Thanks for confirming what most of America already knows — that your community is full of people who see absolutely nothing wrong with excluding people who are “different”. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

But you know what? Karma’s a bitch. And someday, you’re all going to get exactly what you deserve for what you’ve done to Candace and those disabled kids. Enjoy!


democritus | Wednesday April 7, 2010 06:47 am 177

I recommend that we don’t feed the trolls. And if you really want to give someone a piece of your mind, contact the school instead. Let’s see how they like having their phone lines flooded?

Itawamba Agricultural High School – http://www.itawambaahs.com
11900 Old Highway 25, Fulton – (662) 862-5749


Sparkatus | Wednesday April 7, 2010 07:00 am 178
In response to tissuedigester @ 175

Bravo, well said.


rainlion | Wednesday April 7, 2010 07:20 am 179
In response to begleg10 @ 8

“begleg10″ and the other students… I have one question, if the alternative prom was only to “stand up against the ACLU, blah, blah blah…” then why exclude the special needs students as well?

Very pathetic children… very pathetic


scwell | Wednesday April 7, 2010 08:08 am 180
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Begleg10 – Today, you are a sad excuse for a person. I hope that you begin looking inside yourself and see yourself for what you are – a selfish, spoiled little person whose prejudice is on display for all to see. As you make your way in the world, you are always going to run into people that are different than you. You can become the hate-filled person you are today – or you can change and learn to accept all people. I hope you choose the latter.


silentbobsc | Wednesday April 7, 2010 08:47 am 181

**Open Minded Readers Only**

Then within 5 sentences:

The reason the senior class boycotted the actual prom was not because we hate gays.

Record time for the 10m hypocrite dash…

I do hope however that at some point, your ignorance and intolerance of your fellow (wo)man is revisited upon you 10-fold. It’s people like you that embarrass the rest of us with your small-minded bigotry.


smishsmash | Wednesday April 7, 2010 09:17 am 182

I keep going onto forums and seeing the kids say that Constance deserved this because she is an unpleasant person. To the kids at Itawamba, you need to understand why this excuse is ringing hollow with the rest of America. This makes absolutely no difference to the case. If I were to tell you that when Rosa Parks was asked to move to the back of the bus the man doing the asking was the sweetest old gentlemen who needed to sit only because his feet hurt after spending 18 hours saving babies at the hospital and the only reason Rosa did not move is because she is a giant, flaming bitch, would that in any way have made racial segregation morally right? And the answer is, of course, no; that is a ridiculous argument. The actions your school board and community took are indisputably discriminatory and cruel. Whatever you think of Constance’s personality, it simply does not make homophobia, discrimination or even just plain ol’ vanilla bullying of the unpopular kids morally acceptable.

I think the saddest irony in Begleg’s statement that “I wish now that things could have been changed” is that at every step in this process it was the school, the students, and the parents, not Constance, who had the power to change this situation. In fact, this situation could still have a happy ending if the people responsible for this fiasco would simply stand up, admit they had a horrible lapse in judgment, and sincerely apologize. The power to change this situation into something positive is still, and has always been with, the community. Instead, the community picked possibly the cruelest and frankly most poorly conceived way of dealing with this issue that they could possibly come up with (Seriously, there wasn’t ONE parent in this mess that stuck their hand up and said “Really people? We’re solving this with a hoax prom? You guys do know this is going to be splashed all over the internet in about 15 minutes and result in our children getting Facebook stalked, right?”). Then the community spent their time in the backlash stating that this is all someone else’s fault and that their ability to have a good time was the most important thing to protect. It is not surprising that they have been painted as the unrepentant villains across the rest of an appalled America.

Begleg says that “We flexed the muscle of the majority and we’ll suffer the consequences.” Well, having the rest of the county view you as ignorant bigots is the consequence of acting like ignorant bigots. I feel sorry that these teenagers have come across public shame and the nastier side of the internet through this situation, but these are the seeds they and their woefully ignorant parents have sown. I very much hope that once the flames die down a little and these children have time to think this issue through, some of them will realize how shamefully they have betrayed the American values of fairness and equality this country was built on and the message of love and selflessness that Christianity is built on and will try to be better people in the future. I am, however, not holding my breath.


tinman1967 | Wednesday April 7, 2010 09:27 am 183

Yawn.


flickrphotostream | Wednesday April 7, 2010 10:07 am 184

Prom photos and profile info is archived on Flickr here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49081507@N02/


itawambabigots | Wednesday April 7, 2010 10:55 am 185

and names preserved for as long as tumblr lasts here:
http://itawambabigots.tumblr.com/


missfag | Wednesday April 7, 2010 11:00 am 186
In response to cracytracy @ 149

@CracyTracy,

Thanks for staying in Mississippi and fighting the good fight! I was born and raised there, but had to get out to live my life to its fullest.

One small thing: You might want to reconsider calling your gay friends “homosexuals”. It’s kinda like calling African Americans “negroes”. Most don’t like it.


raven333 | Wednesday April 7, 2010 11:02 am 187
In response to begleg10 @ 8

If you were indeed “a senior at IAHS” and not a troll, let me point out that, regardless of any defense you make, much of the USA regards the act you participated in as shameful. You can’t cover it, or make it go away: the name of Itawamba Agricultural High School and your graduation date will be on your transcripts and resumes for the rest of your life. It will be there for your enemies to raise when you act in public life: if you apply for any licensed profession, or run for office.

<croak>I wonder how many invitations it will cost you?<croak>


raven333 | Wednesday April 7, 2010 11:27 am 188

+ following on that comes the thought: I wonder how many of the people who set this up thought it through. The parents aren’t at risk, and any of the students who actively participated I don’t care about. But I wonder how many students just went along, and are going to be paying for the rest of their lives?

Croak!


dhfsfc | Wednesday April 7, 2010 11:29 am 189
In response to itawambabigots @ 185

It’s not going to take very much work to compile names, list them along with the photos of the prom, and send them to the Admissions Office of every college and university in the country. Along with an explanation of the fact that these students, and their parents, violated a Federal Court Order, and will be subject to further lawsuits, discovery and depositions for some time to come. Anonymously, of course!

And some lucky Mississippi lawyer is going to make a lot of money defending these dopes!


angiedange | Wednesday April 7, 2010 12:12 pm 190

My father was a junior at Central High School in Little Rock when it was integrated in 1957. This is the same hatred all over again. But I will say that my dad has always said that there were people who stood up said “no”. There were students who walked away from that situation with “clean hands”. So, I don’t want to hear the whole “they just went along with it and had no choice. They’re just teenagers” Stuff. That’s no excuse. They all had a choice. If I stand there and watch someone getting hanged but don’t actually tie the noose, I am still accountable, on some level, for that murder. Don’t these people get that? Its like no one ever taught them about the civil rights movement. Maybe because many of the most egregious violations happened in the same state?


snoofie | Wednesday April 7, 2010 12:18 pm 191

Oh, looky here. Seems that this isn’t the first time the administration at IAHS has seen fit to discriminate against an LGBT student:

http://www.queerty.com/constance-mcmillens-high-school-also-suspended-a-transgender-student-just-cause-20100325/

To begleg10 and softballgirl: No one is buying your crap, okay? You can sit there and be as self-righteous as you like, and spout all your excuses about why you “had” to have a separate prom for SEVEN students, but no one reading is buying ANY of it. The administration of your school excluded Constance, her girlfriend, and those disabled students simply because they were different. And there’s no two ways about it.

As for the “media storm”: please. Go peddle that bullshit whining somewhere else. The only ones who turned this issue into a media shitstorm were the parents, teachers and administrators who forced the cancellation of the prom simply because an LGBT student *dared* to want to take part in an activity that she had a RIGHT to take part in, just like any other student. Besides, if Candace was the one who ruined your prom by starting a media storm, why exclude the disabled kids too?

As far as I’m concerned, begleg and softballgirl, you’re both nothing but pathetic excuses for human beings. And the saddest part is that you’re never going to know any better, because it is VERY obvious you’re living in a place and being raised by people who see nothing wrong with intolerance and bigotry. You’re to be pitied more than anything, not because of any scrutiny you might be receiving now, but because you’re going to lead narrow, pathetic little lives in narrow, pathetic little towns surrounded by narrow, pathetic people.


meagain | Wednesday April 7, 2010 12:23 pm 192
In response to dhfsfc @ 189

i couldn’t help but join this discussion. i think it’s good that people are speaking out against this, but i’m concerned that some people are going about it the wrong way: fighting fire with fire. while there is a flickr acount compiling these photos, i added my comment there.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49081507@N02/4500287732/#comment72157623796455624

basically, if we don’t want to perpetuate the ignorance, we might as well take the opportunity to educate our teenagers, instead of dooming them to a life of low wages and residual bitterness.

take it out on the parents. they stood by and watched/encouraged/forgot to teach their kids values.


MollyNYC | Wednesday April 7, 2010 01:24 pm 193
In response to begleg10 @ 8

As a whole we didn’t support her decision to throw the district under the bus, or her insinuations that we’re all just a bunch ‘a hicks driving around in beater pick up trucks spitting tobacco and burning crosses.

Oh sweetie. She didn’t do that. You did it to yourself. Just shot yourself right in the foot.

Previously, this could have been written off as some bone-headedness on the part of the school administration and a few small-minded parents–until you said that the student body . . .

. . . rented out the community center, hired vendors, decorated, and our parents ran the security/chaperone staff . . .

. . . went to all that trouble just to make one teenaged girl feel bad.

And your parents should know better.

IAHS is one of the top schools in the state and I’m proud of that . . .

I would be fascinated to know what criteria you’re using for “top schools in the state,” but it doesn’t really matter. For the rest of your lives, anyone outside of Fulton who connects you or your classmates with this disgusting incident will think less of you. That’s how bad it is.

I know as I type this that you’re probably thinking “oh, they’re all a bunch of PC liberals, what do they know?” Well, there’s an old Russian saying: If everyone keeps telling you you’re drunk, sit down. Similarly, if everyone keeps telling you you’re acting like a bigot, you probably are.

I know you’re not asking for advice but seriously? Grow some guts and apologize to Constance. Whatever you think of her now, she’s the one person in your school with the gumption to take on the world outside of Fulton. And someday you might be grateful to have a friend who’s life doesn’t consist–as too many of your current friends’ lives will–entirely of early marriage, unplanned babies, and divorce, followed by decades of same-old-same-old everything and financial desperation.

Also, get a life. Seriously, this one girl ruined your entire year? You realize that there’s stuff to do that isn’t prom?


dhfsfc | Wednesday April 7, 2010 01:46 pm 194
In response to meagain @ 192

The people involved were born into, and raised with, bigotry and intolerance. If you think these people will “learn” something from posters on a blog that they view as (the hated) liberal, think again.

They need to learn that their actions have consequences. They need to learn how to obey the law. And they need to learn that people outside of their community will not welcome them with open arms.


MollyNYC | Wednesday April 7, 2010 01:59 pm 195
In response to begleg10 @ 22

Lindsey – Two things:
(a) I know you don’t like her, but see if you can make friends with Constance. (An apology would be the first step.) She’s smart, brave, sticks up for herself, and she’s got a future–and not everyone in your class can say that (especially the ones who thought this ghost prom was a great idea). As you grow up, you’re going to want friends with bigger lives than they ones who thought humiliating someone was worth spending time and money on. (You thought Constance was trying to humiliate you? Even if that were true, as my late dad would say, “Let the other guy be the bastard.”)

(b) Get out of Itawamba County. Come out to one of the coasts, preferably a big city. (Portland’s nice.) With all due respect to your parents, if they encouraged this rather sordid project, you might want to rub elbows with people who have kinder values. There are excellent universities on both the Pacific and Atlantic sides, and you don’t have to be here more than a year to qualify for resident tuition rates.


avivb | Wednesday April 7, 2010 02:28 pm 196

Softballgirl10:

She wanted to wear a tux to the prom…oh the humanity! So, you never heard of a pantssuit?

My cousin’s bridesmaids were dressed in tuxes (all straight gals) and they looked fantastic. But we are a bunch of city slickers and not Christians anyway. I’m sure you all could quote me where Jesus says that women wearing pants is an abomination.


capecodmercury | Wednesday April 7, 2010 02:58 pm 197

While I certainly agree with the comments on the stupidity of this ghost prom, am I the only one with questios on what actually happened? From the school website, there are about 120 students in the senior class, about 85 % white, but the pictures I’ve seen don’t show anywhere near that number at the event Constance was not invited too.
So, question number one. How big was this other event and where were the rest of the students?
Question number two is about the rest of the students who attended the event that Constance went to. We’ve heard about the two learning disabled students. What about the other few that were there? Did they know about the other event and choose to support Constance (in which case, we should be singing their praises) or were they undesireables too?
In other words, I for one would like more information.


calista | Wednesday April 7, 2010 03:05 pm 198
In response to begleg10 @ 8

Bless your hearts, begleg10 and softballgirl.

I get your desire for a nice quiet prom away from the attention. There is a point, though, when your silence becomes complicity. You may not personally be a bigot. You may not personally hate GLBT people.

You may not be bigots. You may not personally care whether Constance goes to prom or not. The people on your school board did, though, because she is a lesbian, and did something cruel and illegal to keep Constance from going to prom.

When you participated in the ghost prom, whatever your reasons, you participated in that cruelty. You supported the school board’s illegal actions in discriminating against Constance. You became complicit in that bit of cruelty. You enabled it. It doesn’t matter what your reasons were. Your still responsible.

There is a point where a person’s refusal to act against bigotry becomes part of the system that supports bigotry.
I understand that many students at your school are probably sick of the publicity and just want to lay low and go to prom in peace. You just want to have your party and not worry about whether other people are being discriminated against. It must be nice to be a straight person who doesn’t have to worry about what other people think about the way God made you.


meagain | Wednesday April 7, 2010 03:19 pm 199

since it seems from your response that you didn’t read my full argument, i will quote it again here.

“don’t we want these kids to actually LEARN about tolerance and diversity? are they going to do that at community college in mississippi? do you think that if they get stuck working at wal-mart/mcdonald’s for the rest of their life they’re going to lose all their selfish bitterness and resentment?

THEY’RE teenagers. they still have time to grow and change. i say, SEND THEM TO COLLEGE where they will probably end up being treated like outsiders for being intolerant anyway. it will be an eye-opener for them (hopefully). it’s the parents and the lawyer who deserve to have their lives shattered by this event. they’re the ones who allowed for this to happen, and stood by it. they’re the ones who have settled into the people they are going to be for the rest of their lives.”

i don’t expect them to learn anything positive from reading an aggressive blog comment thread/post: in fact, quite the opposite. if anything, they will learn from this, that there is an entire section of people labeling themselves ‘liberals’ who are just as hateful and vengeful as the town is bigoted. yes, they need to learn the consequences of their actions, but as teenagers, they are in some of the most mentally malleable years of their life, and can learn positive things in the right environment. for example, if Lindsay moves to san Francisco, she will undoubtedly be shunned by much of the community: however, it may open her eyes, and change her perception of people as she is exposed to more diversity/variety of life.

people learn from experience. if they don’t understand why their actions are wrong, they will not learn a thing from all of this, and the cycle of bigotry that they were born into will perpetuate. we need to help them learn by letting them fall flat on their own faces – not by pushing them.

also, if these kids do indeed miss out on college, have miserable lives, etc. they are not going to associate it with their own actions. at this point they can point their dirty little fingers at the ‘liberals’ and say it’s our fault for archiving this stuff and doubling the exposure. they will have learned absolutely nothing about responsibility for their actions, and all because we wanted to see them punished so badly.


strangedays | Wednesday April 7, 2010 05:59 pm 200
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

softballgirl, I sincerely hope if you go to college in a different state, you don’t continue to play softball, because at most schools the stereotype about softball players is true. Half of my college softball team, along with the coach, are lesbians. If you are so disgusted at the thought of one lesbian attending your “prom”, then I can’t imagine what would go through your head when you have to spend every day with, travel with, and change in the lockerroom with about 15 other lesbians.


Larue | Wednesday April 7, 2010 07:56 pm 201
In response to Twain @ 130

Long late in reply, but I see your point.

Still, 17 and 18 are kids and I was learning and relearning life’s lessons then, and after.

Can’t argue the right from wrong part, not at all, at 15 I knew right from wrong. Earlier, even.

It’s just very discomforting to read all of this at a high school level and have adults involved at yet another level all together . . . not sure I’m saying it right . . . it’s just hinky.


debs | Thursday April 8, 2010 01:31 am 202

I spent hours today reading about this, and at the end of it all, I wrote a post of my own. Itawamba 2010 and the Lesbian (http://dhconcerts.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/itawamba-2010-and-the-lesbian/)

Here is the only part where I have something different to say (different from what I have seen here):

The Other Students and Their Post-Lesbian Future

So many of the comments by readers wish bad things on the students who held the secret prom. People are threatening to have them banned from good colleges. This is where I differ with the thoughts expressed in some of the comments I read today. Why would we want to punish their ignorant behavior by withholding an opportunity for them to have their minds opened to knowledge and to other people?

Self-Centered Behavior vs. Empathy and Compassion

None of us were born rejecting others or being mean to others. We all learned how to do that. We also learned about each other and learned to be open to each other.I’d like to see the ’secret prom’ kids have the opportunity to learn to value others and treat others with respect. Compassion can be learned just as cruelty and a lack of compassion seem to have been learned, and if not compassion, at least a basic sense of treating others with dignity and respect. I want to believe this is true. I want to believe that living in a different environment would help these young people see the bigger picture. I want to believe that getting to know people who are different from themselves will lead to more openness of heart and mind. I really don’t see these kids as terrible people, just self-centered and lacking in empathy. I don’t wish them a terrible life. I wish them the joy of learning to really see and appreciate others. I’d like to see them all grow and change because of this experience, becoming more sensitive and empathetic people. I don’t wish them harm.

The Lesbian As a Catalyst for Change

Rather than banning these (secret prom, anti-lesbian) students from the college experience, I would like to see them all become on-campus students at universities where intellectual curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge are valued. I would like to see these students spend four years living and learning in a place where their minds can be opened to people and realities beyond the world they currently know.


snoproblem | Thursday April 8, 2010 04:28 am 203
In response to dhfsfc @ 194

They need to learn that their actions have consequences. They need to learn how to obey the law. And they need to learn that people outside of their community will not welcome them with open arms.

Many times THIS

I had a conversation only a few days ago (ie. before learning about any of this sorry Fulton spectacle), where I opined that bad, nasty people do not suffer enough pain or negative consequence for their douchebag behaviour, anymore.

Now, after witnessing a Cat 5 karma hurricane descending on these teens, their parents and their school board, I stand both humbled and corrected.

Heck, my eyebrows are singed from the heat up here in Canada.

Oh yeah, the judge has yet to lay in on them – this is just the beginning.


baystate | Thursday April 8, 2010 07:33 am 204

Sounds like bullying to me. You’re lucky you live out there in the boonies, as you said it. Try pulling that stunt over here in New England and see how fast you can run back home without getting beat up first. Better stay in that little town forever, there is no room for haters and ugly people like you in the big cities. Sad part is, you’re parents support this, maybe thats why they’re stuck in little hick town too as well.


coke80 | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:02 am 205

It sure is a shame that so many people like to give there opinion about something they know nothing about! There was not a FAKE PROM, looks like to me that everyone is looking at this with double standards! No one has ever noticed that when she’s been interviewed or on TV she has no student supporters! If she had friends where are they when the media is around! If she has been gay since the 8th. grade why was this not such a big deal last year at her junior prom? If everyone would stop pointing fingers and start gathering facts you might see a different picture, but no one wants to see the truth because it’s not as much fun! I can tell you when she walked into the ballroom of the Country Club last Friday night one very respectable young man walked over to her and her two friends shook their hands and invited them into the dance! She stayed less than 30 minutes after showing up 1 1/2 hours late. She had no intentions of staying at any prom or party because it was all about showing up late making an appearance and then leaving. She keeps saying that her rights have been violated, step back, she went to the board and asked if her girlfriend could come to the prom with her and wear the tux not her and she was told no, because of policies that hand been in place long before she went to school there! Wrong or right as the rule is there was and is normally a way of getting a rule changed and she should have started that process back in the 8th. -11th. grade. I am not saying what has happened is right, but she had a huge part in making all of this less appealing than it really is. This town and community has good hard working people and families with Christian backgrounds and beliefs that are being hurt because of all of this. Because of the ACLU’s actions and DEMANDS they ruined a 2010 School Class. I work two jobs and have rules and policies that I have to live with everyday and it doesn’t matter if I like them or not I have to obey by them or find another job. That is life’s way. I don’t expect and no one else should expect policies to be changed just for “ME”. “WE” are a group of people put on this earth to get along as a whole! This world requires “US” not just “ME”!
The bleeding has got to stop and start heeling and that cannot happen until the name calling and finger pointing STOPS! It has never and will never solve any problem.
As for me I don’t believe in the homosexual life style, but I believe what one does in there own private home is there business. I have lots of gay friends and love them very much and would do anything in the world for them or anyone else, but when you come out and try to force something a people and back them against a wall like the ACLU has done, then that is when everyone gets defensive. As I said earlier, there is a right and wrong way of doing anything and this is for sure one that should and could have been handled by everyone one involved completely differently.


keskes | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:19 am 206

As an employer, I often hire new college graduates.

But after today, I’ll be checking resumes for those who graduated from this high school.

Nobody wants bigots in the workplace. They are firstly, narrow-minded and intolerant of fellow employees lifestyles; thus creating workplace friction. Secondly, who needs a lawsuit when they show their bigotry.

You may think you have have won the battle, but you assuredly have lost the war.

years from now, you will look back in shame.

Until then, I’d advice all personnel managers to make a note in their files, never hire these grads.

Good luck to the 2010 Class of “Do Not Hire”.


shadowman | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:51 am 207

Violence against a minority group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people

Gays are being beaten, shot at, sent to the hospital, killed. In the Middle East, they are killing gays among other groups out of hatred. Is this what we want America to become? Do we want America to revert back to the 1960′s when groups were killed and segregated against for simply no good reason? Do we want to follow the ways of the Middle East and Al Queda? Let’s push forward, it’s time to end bigotry, discrimination, hate, and ignorance. This is modern America, not the Dark Ages.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm


shadowman | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:51 am 208

To those of you using the Bible as a weapon against homosexuality, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.

http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/

Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.

This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God’s will.


shadowman | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:52 am 209

For those of you claiming homosexuality is a “lifestyle”, that is a false and ignorant statement. Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/06/16/172/

There is overwhelming scientific evidence that homosexuality is not a choice. Sexual orientation is generally a biological trait that is determined pre-natally, although there is no one certain thing that explains all of the cases. “Nurture” may have some effect, but for the most part it is biological.


shadowman | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:52 am 210

And it should also be noted that:
“It is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person’s sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association.”


shadowman | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:52 am 211

The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.

From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Asociation and American Psychiatric Asociation have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.

America’s premier child/mental health associations endorse marriage equality.


shadowman | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:53 am 212

This was taken from another poster that shows why we need to legalize gay marriage. If you don’t feel for this person after reading it, you simply aren’t human.

“I am not sure what our President thinks of this dicission but coming from a poor family and knowing what discrimination is all about I would assume he would not care if “Gays” have equal rights. The whole reason why they are asking for rights to be considered married is from the same reason why I would be for it. My own life partner commited suicide in our home with a gun to his heart. After a 28 year union I was deprived to even go his funeral. We had two plots next to each other. But because we did not have a marriage cirtificate “(Legal Document)” of our union his mother had him cremated and his ashes taken back to Missouri where we came from. That is only one example how painful it is. His suicide tramatized me so much and her disregard for my feelings only added to my heartach. That happened on March 21 of 2007 and I still cannot type this without crying for the trauma I have to endure each day. Oh did I mention I am in an electric wheelchair for life? Yes I am and it is very diffacult to find another mate when you are 58 and in a wheelchair. “


shadowman | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:53 am 213

The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the National Association of Social Workers state:

“There is no scientific basis for distinguishing between same-sex couples and heterosexual couples with respect to the legal rights, obligations, benefits, and burdens conferred by civil marriage.”

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/documents/Amer_Psychological_Assn_Amicus_Curiae_Brief.pdf

Thus, mental health professionals and researchers have long recognized that being homosexual poses no inherent obstacle to leading a happy, healthy, and productive life, and that the vast majority of gay and lesbian people function well in the full array of social institutions and interpersonal relationships.

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/documents/Amer_Psychological_Assn_Amicus_Curiae_Brief.pdf

The research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.p df

The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.

http://www.apa.org/about/governance/council/policy/sexual-o rientation.aspx


sugarspun | Thursday April 8, 2010 09:11 am 214
In response to coke80 @ 205

“She keeps saying that her rights have been violated, step back, she went to the board and asked if her girlfriend could come to the prom with her and wear the tux not her and she was told no, because of policies that hand been in place long before she went to school there!”

Which part of “this rule violates her First Amendment rights” are you failing to understand?

It doesn’t matter what the school rule is. It is unconstitutional to discriminate against a person because of their sexual preference.

It also doesn’t matter if Constance is a friendless bitch whose every action is motivated by the desire to be the center of attention. She’s a person whose constitutional rights were violated. It really is that simple.


debs | Thursday April 8, 2010 09:13 am 215

I do not believe I am being naive to believe that even though these kids seem to be products of an environment that promotes exclusion and cruelty towards those who are seen as other, and they have behaved in bullying behavior as a group, they can learn from this and become better people. I believe that they do not have to live in this same self-serving and other-harming way for the rest of their lives.

I agree that what they did was cruel. It was also probably against the law. And, we all agree that they went out of their way to exclude certain individuals from what should have been open to all students. I do not in any way defend their behavior.

What I would like to see happen here is an effort to incorporate education and rehabilitation (in the area of emotional intelligence, awareness of the needs of others, and compassion) into any judgment or punishment that is handed down. Punishment without education (being punished without really understanding what they did wrong) will only lead the private-party students into more resentment and more of this kind of behavior.

I am not giving them a pass for treating others in this way. I do, however, believe it is very easy to have a narrow view when everyone has the same point of view. I do not know for sure that learning about the world outside of Fulton, Mississippi would change things for these kids. But, I am guessing that many of them are good kids, and given the opportunity to learn from this, they could learn from this experience (from the fallout from their self-serving behavior), become more understanding of others, and regret this act of hurtful exclusion. This hurtful event, and the fallout that has followed, may be an opportunity for some of these kids to make changes that will enable them to grow personally and become people who oppose injustice and work for equality. I would like for that to be what comes from this situation: remorse, reparation, and good works in the future.

I would like to see the good that can come, long term, if the private-prom kids see the world with new eyes, and learn to have open hearts and minds. I would like to see the private-prom kids have the opportunity to learn from this event and change from the inside out. They need to know that adult life is about working together, not about excluding people we do not like. They seem not to have learned that lesson from their parents. I would like to see them have the opportunity to learn it by experiencing the world outside of Fulton (by going to college and seeing a bigger view of the world). Itawamba Agricultural High School could also benefit from anti-bullying education.

The fact that the secret prom even happened is part of a larger situation of bullying and exclusion. Bullying is a big problem in high schools in this country. Itawamba is not the only place where kids are being treated cruelly. But, they have become the poster-child school for this week. I hope that when deciding what legal action will be taken against the students, the parents, and the school board, the judge will take the opportunity to put an anti-bullying program in place. The judge would do the town a favor by bringing in Barbara Coloroso (author of The Bully, The Bullied, and the Bystander). She is an educator, an author, and a speaker. She works tirelessly to try to stop the epidemic of bullying in schools around this country. I went to one of her seminars several years ago. She is an amazing speaker, and she offers practical and life-changing methods for stopping bullying. She teaches that making something right, not simply punishment, is what will positively change the lives of everyone involved in bullying. In her seminar, she gives some remarkable examples of bad things high school students have done to other kids, and how they were made to set things right as their judge-ordered punishment.

It is truly amazing how life-changing it can be to learn to do right thing rather than to simply be punished. Punishment without education, punishment without making right the wrongs done, leads to why me?! thinking and resentment. Setting things right leads to changed hearts and changed lives. This situation may become a wound that does not heal, for those who were the bullies and those who were bullied. But, if handled well, it can become an opportunity for healing and personal growth if someone in charge makes wise decisions about what happens from here.

http://www.kidsareworthit.com/
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/01/excerpt-the-bully-the-bullied-and-the-bystander-2/
http://dhconcerts.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/itawamba-2010-the-bullies-the-bullied-and-the-bystanders/


ilsita | Thursday April 8, 2010 10:39 am 216

Hi, I jut thought I’d direct you all to a blog post on the NEMS360 web site. There are progressive voices speaking out in that county. Maybe we can seek them out and get their backs.


jessecuster | Thursday April 8, 2010 10:47 am 217
In response to coke80 @ 205

You talk a mean game about how people should respect the rules — fair enough. We got rules in our society for a reason.

Except, y’see, that little girl the Fulton folks have gone out of their way to wage holy war against? She didn’t break the rules. She did everything lawfully. You know who didn’t follow the law?

The school administration.

She schooled them in court for breaking the rules of the land, and seeing as how you’re a fella who thinks highly of rules, I find it mighty peculiar that you don’t seem to feel any wrath towards them administrators for setting this whole ball rolling in the first place by forcing law abiding folks to follow rules that weren’t lawful.

Y’see, coke80, you’re in the wrong. You say you believe in rules but you don’t. You’re an anarchist. A law-breaking man, a man who has no respect for justice or rules. And you’ll remain that way up until you see that the real villains in this case are the school administrators.

They’re the ones who ruined the class of 2010 by breaking the law. You’ve got some nerve telling us that a young lady asking people to follow the law is the one who was breaking the rules.


missfag | Thursday April 8, 2010 12:08 pm 218
In response to baystate @ 204

Hey, @baystate, get over yourself. I was born and raised in Mississippi but lived on Cape Cod for four years as an adult. Racial epithets were just as popular there as in the Old South. New Englanders are just more closeted in their bigotry.


missfag | Thursday April 8, 2010 12:15 pm 219
In response to coke80 @ 205

@coke80: “This world requires ‘US’ not just ‘ME’!”

Great bumper sticker. But if you really believe it, then why are you defending a separate prom for outcasts?


sdpty | Thursday April 8, 2010 01:16 pm 220
In response to coke80 @ 205

Speaking of people talking about something they know nothing about…

“As for me I don’t believe in the homosexual life style,”
Homosexuality is not a “life-style”

“but I believe what one does in there own private home is there business.”
in other words, you’re ok with what you don’t see, but don’t make you acknowledge something different from what you’re used to, because it might make you feel uncomfortable.

“I have lots of gay friends and love them very much and would do anything in the world for them or anyone else,”
As long as they don’t acknowledge their “gayness” in front of you and keep it in their private home. You love them, but not ALL of them and you’ll be their friend as long as they keep that part of themselves tucked away somewhere where it can’t make you uncomfortable.

“but when you come out and try to force something a people and back them against a wall like the ACLU has done, then that is when everyone gets defensive.”
So, again, as long as you aren’t asked to tolerate it in your presence, it’s ok for them to be that way. And you won’t have to fight back against them for being who they are.

“As I said earlier, there is a right and wrong way of doing anything and this is for sure one that should and could have been handled by everyone one involved completely differently.”
Yes…if those gays could just learn to stay quiet and not make anyone (including me) uncomfortable.

You sound like an amazing and loving friend who would do ANYTHING IN THE WORLD for your gay friends…except love them and be their friend.
For their sake, may your children never turn out to be gay and be subjected to your kind of love.


sdpty | Thursday April 8, 2010 01:25 pm 221

Speaking of people talking about something they know nothing about…(Part I)

“As for me I don’t believe in the homosexual life style,”
Homosexuality is not something to believe in or not believe in.

“but I believe what one does in there own private home is there business.”
As long as you don’t have to acknowledge its existence and be made to feel uncomfortable because it is not what you are used to seeing.”

“I have lots of gay friends and love them very much”
As long as they never show affection for a boyfriend or girlfriend in front of me and make me feel uncomfortable.

“and would do anything in the world for them or anyone else,”
Except support them if they want to be seen in public, at, say, their high school prom.


jeweliete | Thursday April 8, 2010 03:10 pm 222
In response to kittkatt @ 86

You gotta love internet justice. It’s swift and effective. Hopefully these children will learn


utep99 | Thursday April 8, 2010 04:43 pm 223

I believe this is so extremely stupid on both sides. America is a nation of choice. We are a nation that we are supposed to be able to voice our opinions and express our beliefs. This girl had every right to aiiend the prom as she wanted. But sorry all you PC police out there, The parents and the kids had the same right to move that prom and hold it elsewhere. It seems lately we only want to give rights to one side and to heck with everybody else. The kids had a choice if only nine showed at the alternative prom oh well the choice was there and that decision was made by both the nine who attended her party and the rest that went elsewhere. I really believe it is silly to say this city is cruel because they used their rights not to be exposed to her desires and cry poor baby to this girl because not everybody ran to her porm.


steinman77 | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:17 pm 224

utep99 @223

Perhaps they did, in fact, have that right – we haven’t heard from the judge yet – but even if they did, we have the right to respond to such a cruel, deceitful, bigoted act with a firestorm of wrath, as we have done. We have the right to deny such vicious, untrustworthy people access to our schools and offices.

Funny how few conservatives seem to get that. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from any consequences for what you say.


steinman77 | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:22 pm 225

What the heck happened?

Let’s try this again:

utep99 @223:

The parents and kids may indeed have had that right – we haven’t heard from the judge yet – but even if they did, we still have the right to respond to such a cruel, bigoted, deceitful act with a firestorm of wrath, as we have done. We have the right to exclude such vicious, untrustworthy people from our schools and offices.

I know it’s a hard concept for conservatives to grasp, but freedom of speech is not the same as being unchallenged or unquestioned about what you say, and suffering no consequences for it.


pinko | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:25 pm 226

Extremely stupid on both sides!?! Sure America is a nation of choice. Yeah sure you can mislead a court about something, and you can be a bigot, and you can be mean to people, and you can take part in a conspiracy to humiliate a young girl, you can even be a total asshole if you like. However you still have to suffer the consequences of your actions. Hey you have the right to smear dog poop in your own face, this does not mean it is a good idea. With choices comes consequences and the choice made by the “good” people of Fulton stinks to high heaven. And one more thing what’s with the “her prom” business?
On a side note it’s pretty nervy for any of these kids to talk about the evils of weird clothes, we have all by now seen the attire of those attending the secret prom. Without exception that was the most hideous assortment of loud, cheap looking, ugly dresses,(that all screamed “look at me, I need attention”) I have ever seen in my life. Do all American kids wear revolting junk like that to prom or is it just those isolated from civil society in stagnant backwater like Fulton Mississippi? Maybe these kids are just gullible rubes after all, kids who go along with anything, I mean someone must have told them their gowns looked nice and dispite all evidence to the contrary they bought them and wore them out. The photos looked like a graduation dance for a clown college. Weird clothes indeed!


steinman77 | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:35 pm 227

As for you kinder-than-me souls out there who actually want these vicious little shits to learn something, I just have to say that the only lessons I care about them learning are:

1) Not everyone is on your side. Your little hellhole of a town may be proud of you for standing up to the ACLU and putting an uppity little dyke in her place, which may have led you to believe that everybody else would be as well. Wrong. It’s a big, big world outside that little patch of ground that you blight with your presence, and we. Don’t. Like you.

2) Just because you’ve been able to bully people your whole life and get away with it, doesn’t mean you’ll get away with it forever.


steinman77 | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:37 pm 228

Goddammit, why does this site keep eating my responses to utep?

See below the missing paragraph.

The parents and kids may indeed have had that right – we haven’t heard from the judge yet – but even if they did, we still have the right to respond to such a cruel, bigoted, deceitful act with a firestorm of wrath, as we have done. We have the right to exclude such vicious, untrustworthy people from our schools and offices.


steinman77 | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:37 pm 229

The parents and kids may indeed have had that right – we haven’t heard from the judge yet – but even if they did, we still have the right to respond to such a cruel, bigoted, deceitful act with a firestorm of wrath, as we have done. We have the right to exclude such vicious, untrustworthy people from our schools and offices.


steinman77 | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:38 pm 230

I give up.


steinman77 | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:39 pm 231

Oh, and now it’s back.

Sorry for the multiple posts, all.


Lisa Derrick | Thursday April 8, 2010 05:57 pm 232

NOTE TO ALL FROM LA FIGA:

While we encourage vigorous discussion and even dissent, I will not countenance violent threats, or hyperbolic rhetoric in support of it.

Also, as the daughter of a Southern woman from a small town–and my father was the son of a Kansas farmer–I take personal umbrage at the use of “hick” and other colorful disparagements.

You are no better, and in fact possibly worse, than those you chastisize when you use such language.


fentdog | Thursday April 8, 2010 06:37 pm 233

Wow…I can’t believe this.

To set everything straight, CONSTANCE LIED TO THE PRESS. There was no fake prom, there was no secret underground lie, there was nothing like you people think. I am a senior at IAHS and I am a good friend of Constance. I stood up for everything she fought for till this crap hit the fan. I know for a fact that she knew there was going to be a prom in Evergreen. The reason she didn’t know about anything was because right when the main prom was canceled, three parent ran proms sprung up (Including the *secret* one). Constance knew that each one was going on. During the week of the prom, Constance decides to take a little time off (for what reason I don’t know) and no one hears from her. Everyone makes the decision to go to Evergreen while Constance was god knows where. I know people tried to go contact her, but she would never pick up her phone. On the night of the prom, she goes to a different one…the school sponsored one. She didn’t know that everyone had decided to go to Evergreen, thus she had a fit. I can personally recall trying to call Constance to go to Evergreen….but she never answered. This whole situation has been altered by the press and media. Long story short, Constance didn’t pay attention to what was going on at the time and when things didn’t go the way she thought…BOOM! Media storm again…..now she is back in the news. Btw…no one here hates Constance, we don’t sleep with our relatives, and we don’t act like it’s the 1950′s. Don’t listen to Begleg…..


RBG | Thursday April 8, 2010 06:55 pm 234
In response to fentdog @ 233

So, your point is?


Lisa Derrick | Thursday April 8, 2010 06:56 pm 235
In response to fentdog @ 233

And what about the other students who didn’t go to Evergreen? Were they invited too?


fentdog | Thursday April 8, 2010 07:05 pm 236
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 235

It wasn’t based on Invitations. It was free


fentdog | Thursday April 8, 2010 07:31 pm 237
In response to fentdog @ 236

Change of words…sorry. Constance was told to go to Evergreen. I didn’t mean to use the word Invited. The Evergreen prom was not based on invitations


ilsita | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:12 pm 238
In response to fentdog @ 237

If what you’re saying is true, and Constance was informed (I assume you left her a message? Sent an email? Put an announcement up on FB, where everyone could see it?), then why weren’t the rest of her classmates (like the ones who posted here, for instance — or the once who started the “Quit yer crying” page) informed that the event wasn’t organized to exclude her “drama” from their “prom”?

Why does it seem that you’re the only one in your class who knows this? The others seem to be validating Constance’s story by explaining why they did exactly what you’re saying they didn’t do.


zaph | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:26 pm 239
In response to fentdog @ 233

So let me understand this:

Constance could have gone to the Evergreen Prom, but she never picked up the phone.

Meanwhile, begleg10@8 says:

The reason the senior class boycotted the actual prom was not because we hate gays. [...] We also wanted to do it without the main cause of the lousy.

and softballgirl10 @ 57 says:

all we wanted was a quiet night away from this mess and her but we have that taken away from us now. [emphasis added]

and then you say,

no one here hates Constance,

but anyone can read the stuff that Constance’s peers wrote. It’s all over Facebook now.

You were asked by Lisa Derrick @ 233 if the other students who didn’t go to Evergreen were invited, but you didn’t really answer the question. Were they told about it or not?

I find this new explanation a little late, of uncertain credibility, and contradicted by people OTHER than Constance McMillan.


Lisa Derrick | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:29 pm 240
In response to fentdog @ 237

Thanks for clarifying. And I appreciate that you have made clear the subtle distinction between “told” and “invited.”

I have a few more questions, too–and thank you for being so forthcoming. And a thank you also to your classmates for stepping up and telling their impressions and understanding of the situation. By civil discourse, honesty and listening, hopefully we can all come to understand–even though we may disagree with–each others’ points of views.

What about the other kids who ended up at the country club, were they told to go to Evergreen as well?

The school sponsored one at the country club–how much did that cost for tickets?
Originally when the prom was to be held at IAHS Commons, the tickets were $35 per student, and $10 per guest.

How much did the school sponsored prom cost the school?

How many kids were at Evergreen? At the other two parent run proms?

So, when were these parent-run parties organized? They seemed to have happened pretty quickly, given that on March 29, some kids were saying that were upset that the prom wouldn’t be happening, yet on April 3, they were glad it did.


ilsita | Thursday April 8, 2010 08:48 pm 241

I guess the fundamental “does not compute” about fentdog’s explanation is: If it’s true that everyone was invited to the “prom in Evergreen” (prom!)… I mean if it was The Prom, and it was for everyone, then why not just have it at the Country Club?

In light of the new explanation, what was the purpose of changing the venue? And what was the purpose of keeping the country club open? Why not leave a sign there, saying, “Hey, any kids who ended up here, the prom ended up in Evergreen! For no good reason!”

And what about the other kids? Did anyone call them? Did you put up some flyers? Tweets? Facebook announcements?

(As Judge Judy says, “If it doesn’t make sense, IT’S NOT TRUE!”)


zaph | Thursday April 8, 2010 10:24 pm 242

You know, Coke80, blaming the ACLU for coming to Constance McMillen’s aid is like blaming the NAACP for defending Rosa Parks. You know who Rosa Parks was, right? She’s the African-American lady who refused to give up her seat on a city bus for a white person. Back in 1955, black people had to give their seats to white people if there were no more seats left. She said no, and the bus driver, a guy named James Blake, called the police on her. Mrs. Parks was arrested, and that started the Montgomery Bus Boycott. The NAACP fought the charge up the appeals court chain until the Supreme Court said that Mrs. Parks’ rights were violated. Rosa Parks is enshrined in high honor within the civil rights movement, while the names of James F. Blake and many like him have been forgotten or relegated to a sorry footnote. The NAACP is still around, even if they pissed people off for demanding that Montgomery follow the law.

Constance McMillen, as everyone knows, was initially denied the opportunity to bring her same-sex date to the prom. The ACLU, on Constance’s behalf, sued and won. The school, being a public institution, had to follow the law, and could not legally deny Constance her rights because she’s lesbian. In the same vein, I’m sure that the ACLU pissed people off for demanding that the school follow the law as well, but I also expect the ACLU to stick around for long time.

This bears repeating. In both cases, they challenged a rule they (and others) thought were wrong. And it WAS wrong. So the rule got changed. That’s the way it should be. Deal with it.

Now I’ve never met Rosa Parks or Constance McMillen, and I’m not saying the Ms. McMillen has anywhere the same stature of Mrs. Parks. Now I’m not saying that homophobia is the same as racism — although there are many parallels. But I suspect that Mrs. Parks and Ms. McMillen are cut from the same courageous cloth. Both of them stood up for themselves in the face of a panicked and powerful opposition. They got allies because many were appalled by the contempt they did not deserve. Just like people who knew there was nothing wrong with Rosa Parks for being black, there’s many who know there’s nothing wrong with Constance McMillan for being gay. These women did not expose the hypocrisies within their communities so much as give the prejudiced an opportunity to show their ignorance, hatred, fear and duplicity all by themselves. Without condoning some of the over-the-top vitriol, if Fulton has been wounded by all this, it’s self-inflicted.

You write, “I don’t expect and no one else should expect policies to be changed just for ’ME’”. You really don’t get it, do you? Rosa Parks didn’t fight back just for Rosa Parks. She fought back for all people of color, and THAT is what made her great. People haven’t supported Constance because she’s a lesbian, they’ve supported her for standing up for herself AND all the gay teenagers now and to come. Good for her. She’s become a role model to thousands upon thousands of GLBT youth who are tired of the closet, and to many more straight youth simply for standing up for who she is. She earned respect for sticking her neck out to do the right thing, and that’s not an easy thing to do in a high school.

I’ve been reading the blog comments and Facebook entries from the students and parents of Itawamba Agricultural High School, and I’m amazed at the dissembling and self-serving rationalizations. You (among others) seem to be trying so hard to make this all about Constance McMillen’s character flaws. But you ignore or minimize the falsehoods and poor choices of IAHS’s administration and Constance’s peers and their parents — people who should have and did know better.

Nobody has to like Constance. Nobody has to like lesbians. Nobody has to like somebody who’s different. But nobody gets to lie and cheat and gossip and demean people so publicly and not get called on it — the evidence is all over the internet. That a lot of people were doing it doesn’t make it any better. That they called themselves Christians doesn’t make it any better either. The people who didn’t do the right thing here lessened their own soul. Sometimes, if we’re honest, we call ourselves on our own misdeeds. It’s called shame, and it can be very healthy. The Partying Class of 2010 and their parents might try it sometime.

It’s getting harder and harder to be bigoted, feign ignorance, or selectively hide behind scripture when treating people badly. A little over 50 years ago, people had to choose between standing by Rosa Parks and what she represented, or beside a now forgotten bus driver James Blake and what he represented. It may not have been easy, but some people made the right choice and could take pride in that in the years to come. Others chose badly, eventually to their own shame, and completely to their children’s shame.

Times change. GLBT youth are here. They’ve always been here, but now they’re coming out of the closet more and more. And, just like black people, it’s moving from tolerance to acceptance and inclusion. Not quickly, mind you, but it’s moving inexorably in that direction. Even Fulton, Mississippi is not immune, and it now has a choice: Do you treat GLBT people the same as everyone else, or don’t you? What will you choose, Coke80? People are watching, and you and Fulton can’t circle the wagons anymore.


brackish | Thursday April 8, 2010 11:48 pm 243

i decided to research “softballgirl10″ after another poster discovered Lindsey. The fb group ‘Constance quit yer cryin’ was started by a someone who either had graduated or who didnt go to the school. I never became a fan, just read the posts. I think this is the same person because of the writing style, interest in sports, and more. You may disagree. I am hoping for other opinions. Honestly.

Comments were made that it was this person:

http://www.facebook.com/genniemarie
http://www.myspace.com/deadly_kisses7
http://www-int.takkle.com/people/6965153/-/profile

The weird thing is that other than some stupid myspace postings, trolling, she seems like a normal idiot. Not some hate filled bigot. I cannot be sure this is the person who did this. Her sites have been locked up, shut down, so its hard to say. I think a lot of them did this, so it may be coincidence. Its hard for me to think poorly of anyone, but the group of them disappoint me to the core of my being.

What I do know is that hatred has to end…

http://itawambabigots.tumblr.com/

..because the internet doesn’t.


avast2006 | Thursday April 8, 2010 11:48 pm 244

So, Lindsey, let me get this straight…

Y’all were all mad at Constance for getting the Prom cancelled, right? That was a major blow to your senior year, right? Some of you were mad enough that you made and wore T-shirts that said, “No prom, thanks Constance.” (You seem to have missed that Constance possessed neither the desire nor the authority to have Prom cancelled, but that didn’t stop you from blaming her for something that she was neither capable of nor wanted.)

But then when it turned out that the Prom wasn’t actually cancelled after all, the ENTIRE SENIOR CLASS, minus Constance and couple of other undesirables, couldn’t be bothered to actually attend the official Prom — remember, the one you all had had your hearts set on the previous day when you were blaming Constance — preferring “just another party on the same night” over the real thing.

And you continue to insist that “just another party on the same night” was not considered by anyone else to be the real Prom, despite all the photos being posted online with Prom 2010 in the captions or album names, despite all the online snickering and commentary about putting one over on Constance.

Yeah, right. You are as pathetic at sophistry as you are at telling the truth.

I can’t wait to hear you folks try out that argument in front of the judge who presided over this. Perjury, contempt of court, and more perjury. Good luck with that.


avast2006 | Friday April 9, 2010 12:05 am 245
In response to coke80 @ 205

coke80, think a minute. Try.

What would you do if you showed up to your prom, discovered the hall was nearly empty, and realized that you had been duped after all? How long would you stay?

Secondly, what on earth does your statement about whether Constance has any school friends have to do with the rightness or wrongness of what the school administration and parents did to her? If anything, the lack of school supporters for Constance indicates that you all are indeed against her. That’s hardly an argument vindicating your actions.

Finally, there is no escaping the fact that the school board was told by a judge that their course of action was illegal, and they went ahead and arranged matters so that they would play out that way anyway. Now you are all upset because your machinations have been exposed to the whole country (Welcome to the 21st century. Isn’t the Internet something?) and you are being called out for the way things turned out. Guess what? The whole thing is a fiasco — and it is due to the actions of the school, the parents, and the more vocal and hateful of the student body. Not Constance. You claim she is some sort of force of nature back home. Well, we have no way of knowing the veracity of that claim, and we don’t see that in Constances’s demeanor in her appearances — but we do see what kind of fools the rest of you have made of yourselves. You have only yourselves to blame for your own actions.


mikhastur | Friday April 9, 2010 02:54 am 246

Lindsey,

You and your classmates will grow to regret this unkind act, just as your older relatives have grown to regret the ugliness they perpetrated when their schools were racially integrated.


fentdog | Friday April 9, 2010 05:26 am 247
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 240

@ Lisa Derrick. To sum up all the questions, I don’t much about the school run prom. I do know that everyone went to Evergreen because more work was put into it.

@ Zaph. I should have said most of the school. There are still people that hate her out of biased reasons. As you know, we are a bunch of Teenagers and we tend to follow trends. Once word got out that there was a “fake” prom, the Constance haters jumped on the band wagon. Also, last night I was just informed that the Evergreen prom was private and she wouldn’t be welcomed, I apologize for not stating it. The reason why the school funded a prom was to make it up to Constance by throwing one she was invited to (Which is what she wanted in the first place). But anywho, what’s done is done. Our town is still a hick town :/


sugarspun | Friday April 9, 2010 06:22 am 248

@brackish, there’s a segment in the very earliest posts on the “Constance quit yet crying” FB group that calls out one Corey Young for removing his name from the group. I don’t know if he’s a student or not.

@fentdog, so you all ended up at a private party from which Constance was excluded and at which she wasn’t welcome? Does it matter, in that case, whether you tried to tell her about it? (And does that mean that you were the only one trying to get in touch with her? Or did you perhaps call once and not try again? Did you forget that you can send emails and SMS messages?)

I notice you call it a fake prom now.

Teenagers do follow trends and mostly those trends are harmless except to your older selves when you look back and think, What the hell was I wearing? Following a trend to exclude a lesbian because she asked to be treated the same as all the other kids is repulsive in the extreme and there is no justification. Excluding the LD kids just because there was a chance to do so is heartbreaking. I hope that when you’re all a little older and you look back, it’ll be more than your abysmal fashion sense that makes you cringe.


capecodmercury | Friday April 9, 2010 06:36 am 249
In response to fentdog @ 247

So, let me get this straight. You admit that Constance was not invited to the prom that you and all the other students attended. You still have not responded to the question about the other students that went to the Country Club.

Tell me, do you still think that Constance lied?

Also, if you do consider yourself her friend, have you apologized to her for the way she was treated. And, do you really think that your actions were those of a friend?


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 09:58 am 250
In response to fentdog @ 247

Thank you, fentdog, for your follow-up.

Constance really didn‘t lie, did she? The quote in The Advocate was true:

"They had two proms and I was only invited to one of them," McMillen says. "The one that I went to had seven people there, and everyone went to the other one I wasn’t invited to."

Were the disabled kids invited to Evergreen prom as well? How about the other kids at the Country Club prom? Were they there because they weren‘t told about or invited to Evergreen, or because they refused to participate in an exclusionary prom?

In any case, the people at the "official" prom –and it was a Fake Prom– got through this with their integrity and honesty intact, and in much better shape than their classmates (and their parents). While the pictures at the Real Prom show people having a good time, some perhaps congratulating themselves on keeping Constance out of it, in time the kids there will learn that the price to be paid is a lot more than a rented limousine and some makeup.

Integrity is not just a word, even in the Internet Age. It is a thing to live by, no matter what your station in life is. It cannot be bought, and must be zealously guarded because it can be easily damaged. I don‘t know Constance. But Constance has given the country a lesson in the risks and the rewards of doing the right thing. I have no idea where she‘ll be going after this, but she‘s off to a great start.

I‘ve never been to Fenton. But so many people in Fenton –students, parents, administrators and others– have shown by their example the damage that can be done when fear overtakes judgment, and cheap rationalizations reach across generations. People all over the country has taken notice of this. It‘s left a stain that will fade, but will never fully go away.

Fentdog, I hope you think long and hard about your own role in all this. Ask yourself if you‘ve really been a friend to Constance. Think about the things you did, and the things you didn‘t do but should have. If you‘re honest with yourself, you‘ll come out of this a little bruised, maybe a little ashamed, but a lot wiser.


smishsmash | Friday April 9, 2010 10:21 am 251

I have to say, I’m pretty amazed at the ability of all the students from this school to make arguments in support for their position that actually completely validate the opposing side’s points. If I were going to go on the internets and defend myself against allegations that I am a homophobic bully that unfairly excludes people, I don’t think the crux of my argument would be “No one likes that person anyway and I don’t support the homosexual lifestyle.” Don’t they teach debate and logic in high school anymore? Man I must be old.

Coke80, you say “I work two jobs and have rules and policies that I have to live with everyday and it doesn’t matter if I like them or not.” To put it into a perspective you might understand, you probably don’t dislike those rules very much. The rules that govern employment, particularly employment of minors, are very slanted to protect the worker. Why? Because 100 years ago or so, all the people working 18 hour, 7 days a week shifts at back breaking, dangerous labor for which they were paid peanuts got together and said “You know what? The rules that allow employers to do this to us stink. Let’s change them.” This is how progress is made. If everyone just sat back and said “Well, this person treating me cruelly has a legal right the social ability of the majority to do so, I better shut up and take it” we would still have slavery and women who can’t vote.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 10:31 am 252

Get the story straight…… She was invited to the prom at the Tupelo Furniture Market tickets were being sold and the deadline was such & such date……. she went to get a ticket AFTER THE DEADLINE!!! I went to school at IAHS and even 11 years ago there was a deadline for ticket purchases and we all knew it, we also knew that you had to show up in appropriate attire, meaning formal dresses for girls and tux or suit for the guys, we had SEVERAL Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Trans gender students and never had a problem. Now, after the boy that showed up wearing a dress at school this all exploded. He showed up in a dress yes but that is not why he was asked to go home….he was asked to go home because his 1st week there he dressed appropriately rumor has it several guys asked about the new girl saying she was pretty cute!!! Then he showed up in a mini skirt, Stilettos and ORANGE (eccentric) hair. In the handbook that all school attendees get on their 1st day it has a list of appropriate attire and heels are limited it even goes as far as to saying no shower shoes (flip flops) and has a required heel size because some shoes cause a personal injury, like falling a breaking or sprain your ankle, these can become huge lawsuits to the school .

Is it a coincidence that she started all this ruckus after he got short lived Statewide media attention? I think not. All she had to do was show up and then if….IF they said anything then she would have had a EXCELLENT CASE!! Instead she made it known what she was going to do.

Also about the whole prom controversy, as long as the parents threw the prom they did not have to invite her that would be like going to a high end night club and suing them because they said you couldn’t go in when we all know that a lot of clubs pick and choose. We find that insane to sue a private night club but its ok to think that the ACLU can sue on behalf of Constance for not being included in a private prom or party. And you need to listen to the kids they had no problem with Constance coming to the prom in a tux or with her girlfriend, even though it was in fact known to Constance before all this that her girlfriends parents were not going to let her go to the prom with Constance or anyone for that fact 1) because the girlfriend is 15 and Constance is 18 and 2) they didn’t and don’t believe in the relationship!! So yes I believe it is all for attention!!! The kids that went to the private prom wanted a media free night so they could have the same right Constance wanted and had. They wanted I place to be teenagers on prom night does it matter that prom night is associated with grinding on your partner and possible after prom sex, after prom parties no it doesn’t matter. What matters is that Constance wanted a prom well even though it wasn’t what she expected she still got it, with school officials attending!! Its the same as someone saying well I didn’t EXPECT to be a mom at 18 but here I am with a baby!! And yes that is a person experience comment so make all the comments you want about Mississippi and being barefoot and pregnant because yes I was barefoot most of the time!!! But its all the same other that I made a life changing decision she did too not about being a lesbian but choosing to go to the ACLU before there was an ACTUAL PROBLEM!!!

YOu can bash me all you want but despite the media and all the people who are seeing this in the wrong light Fulton MS is a great town, yes its hard living there if you are different, you may have to be secretive about certain aspects of your life which isn’t right you should be able to be who you want to be but as in every case of every person WE ALL have to show that we deserve to be respected. Just like a child that’s of age has to show their parents they are trustworthy. NO ONE can expect to be handed respect. This town has a few thousand not to exceed 4000 or 5000 people!! Everyone knows everyone and everyone will eventually know your business I now live over 500 miles away and I still know the ends and outs of many peoples lives not because I go looking but because ALL my family lives there and Most of my friends are still there and like any other small town i get calls starting out “did you hear”? So before you start blaming the kids that attended the PRIVATE PARTY/PROM look at the real reason why they did and look at the parents reasoning too, the school was in the national spot light, the resource officer over the WHOLE attendance center was having to control the media because they were distracting the kids every morning and I’m not going to say they are only their to get an education because we all know that’s not 100% true, they go because the law makes them. But they do have the right to go to school without having to appear on the local or national news. So come on people look at the real issue here a small town girl wants attention, well she got it and that’s fine but take a closer look at Itawamba County we have had Dr.s , Lawyers and Ivy League Students. We have Military members, Gay Rights Activists and may more respectable people from the county that’s spread out all over the WORLD!!!! So not ALL of us are back woods hicks that cant conform, we aren’t KKK supporters at least the MANY people I know and yeah she would get some looks and whispers but its not like they would beat her down or run her out of town for wearing a tux to the prom!!


smishsmash | Friday April 9, 2010 11:00 am 253

Aw man, why are we even bothering to argue with these people? They don’t get it, they are not going to get it, and their use of grammar hurts my brain.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 11:33 am 254
In response to msrealist @ 252

Has there been a run on shovels at the hardware store? So many people posting from the Fenton area seem to be digging themselves deeper. At least Fentdog, I think, is walking back the rationalizations.

First, if there wasn‘t a problem, then the ACLU wouldn‘t have gotten involved in the first place. They‘ve really got better things to do than to chase non-existent problems.

Second, if there wasn‘t a problem, then the Federal Judge would have tossed the case out. He didn‘t.

You write:

What matters is that Constance wanted a prom well even though it wasn’t what she expected she still got it, with school officials attending!!

But this was not really The Prom, was it? The real prom was out at Evergreen, and Constance was specifically excluded.

Sorry, but Occum‘s Razor applies here. Constance McMillen was denied her true prom not because she‘s a media whore, nor because she would wear a tux, nor because they wanted the media away, but because Constance is a lesbian and wasn‘t apologizing for it.

Like I said, I‘ve never been to Fenton. But I‘ve been to other small towns that DON‘T have lawyers, or Ivy League students, or military personnel, or much anything remarkable at all, but still collectively have the decency to never treat GLBT teenagers they way Constance was treated.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 11:56 am 255

First and foremost the name of the small town is Fulton you know like Fulton Co Georgia!! Secondly, there was not a problem she was told “If you show up with your girlfriend and/or in a tux you MAY be asked to leave IF it makes anyone uncomfortable.” So its like this she didn’t try to go to the prom with her girlfriend or in a tux first what she did was take the merit of one school official who happened to be the VICE PRINCIPAL not the Superintendent of Ed or the Principal and decided that since this person says this I’m not going to even try to show up without causing a bit of an uproar, first. Like I said I went to school there and they aren’t as strict as the media and Constance is making them out to be.

And yes that was REALLY THE PROM, if it wasn’t then why were school officials there? Why did EVERYONE KNOW about that Prom? Just because the parents of other students has a Private Parent Sponsored Prom doesnt make the one at the country club any less real.

What you all are refusing to look at is

“She was invited to the prom at the Tupelo Furniture Market tickets were being sold and the deadline was such & such date……. she went to get a ticket AFTER THE DEADLINE!!! I went to school at IAHS and even 11 years ago there was a deadline for ticket purchases and we all knew it, we also knew that you had to show up in appropriate attire, meaning formal dresses for girls and tux or suit for the guys, we had SEVERAL Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Trans gender students and never had a problem.”

They canceled that prom yes…..because they thought they would get sued for having a deadline and she probably would have tried, now let me see, can I sue the public school system because the deadline for my child to start kindergarten is 3 days to a week before his/her 5th birthday?
No I can’t!! The point is the parents canceled the prom at the TFM so that there wouldn’t be any controversy with Constance. Its not because she is a Lesbian its because she causes drama and furthermore I’m glad the Jr’s and Sr’s got to have a short lived fun night, even though they are now getting ridiculed about it!! This is all ridiculous, stop relying on the media and unreliable source for you info you want the real answers go to Fulton unbiased and stay for a week or two and then say that ALL people from there are homophobes or not open-minded.

If you aren’t from there you need to keep your nose out of it. Yes Constance should have had a normal prom and she would have had one if she would have just shown up at the ORIGINAL prom and not started all of this!!


ilsita | Friday April 9, 2010 12:26 pm 256
In response to msrealist @ 252

Goodlord.

Get the story straight…… She was invited to the prom at the Tupelo Furniture Market tickets were being sold and the deadline was such & such date……. she went to get a ticket AFTER THE DEADLINE!!!

Which “prom” are you talking about? Constance didn’t have any trouble getting into the decoy prom. Are you saying that she was invited to the real prom (the one everyone actually attended), but didn’t buy her tickets in time? If you’re talking about the “official prom” (decoy), then the point is moot… She attended that.

Also about the whole prom controversy, as long as the parents threw the prom they did not have to invite her that would be like going to a high end night club and suing them because they said you couldn’t go in when we all know that a lot of clubs pick and choose.

No. That’s not an apt analogy because no public establishment can discriminate based on gender, race, religion… If it could be proven that a night club refused service to black people or Jewish people, they could certainly be sued.

Better to say that this was just a private, invite-only party. We are all perfectly within our rights to include and exclude whomever we want from our homes and private functions. That’s what happened.

If, in the first paragraph, you were indeed referring to the private party (real prom), this argument undermines your assertion that Constance was invited. If she was invited to the private affair, then why defend her exclusion?

Furthermore, it is plain that the parents who organized this event are playing games with legal technicalities: holding to the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of the law or of their professed religion. That’s just plain contemptible behavior. I suspect that if this goes to trial, and emails are subpoenaed, it will be clear that, regardless of the legal technicalities, the intent behind this will be proven to be morally and ethically debased.

What matters is that Constance wanted a prom well even though it wasn’t what she expected she still got it, with school officials attending!!

And you, too, are playing games with technicalities. Technically, Constance got what she wanted. In reality, she got nothing of the sort and that’s what made this whole thing such an awesome coup for yall. As Christians, the people involved in this are going to have to figure out how to reconcile their un-Christian intentions — they behaved like the pharisees and sadducees in the Gospel. I don’t think you can play word-games like this with Jesus. I guess you’re feeling lucky.

but its not like they would beat her down or run her out of town for wearing a tux to the prom!!

You said above that all she had to do was keep her intentions to herself and just show up in her tux. She should have known better than to act like a normal teenager and get excited and chatty about what she was going to wear to the prom? She should have just done all her prom planning in secret (What teenage girl does that?)?

You should read the initial lawsuit. There is nothing gender-specific about the prom dress-code. You do realize that she didn’t take a stand until after she’d already been denied permission to wear her choice of formal attire. I mean, she was already beaten down and run out of town, figuratively speaking, before the prom.

Since you’re aware of the fact that there are GLBT people and activists in your town, you might also get familiar with the fact that requesting/expecting people who don’t conform to sneak around, act like they’re someone they’re not, is bald-faced bigotry.

Also, if those people wanted to avoid the media and the drama, they would have just let it all go. Constance would have made her appearance, maybe someone would take some pictures, and… then end. Instead, they decided to take a stand (which is OK for them to do, right? When Constance takes a stand, that’s just drama; but when the right people take a stand, that’s understandable…)

Finally, I want to point out to you that the rights that we have established for citizens of the United States exist to protect unpopular people — not to protect the majority’s voice. Does that make sense?

Who needs the protections of the first amendment more, you and your straight, upstanding, popular, Christian friends, or someone who doesn’t conform? Someone whose voice is more likely to be stifled?

(I’m so sorry if the formatting left a bunch of \s all over the place. I hit the preview button, and everywhere I put a quote or an apostrophe, the text editor added a bunch of slashes… I hope that mess doesn’t show up…)


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 12:32 pm 257

Fulton, sorry.

I never said that Fulton was exclusively populated by bigots, nor do I think that. I admit that Ilsquo;d have more respect for the place if more clearer heads had spoken up sooner.

The prom-that-wasn‘t at the Tupelo Furniture Mart, and that Constance may have bought her ticket late for it, are non-issues. There was no prom there.

Other kids cause drama, and they get to go the prom. Singular. A prom. So why have two proms in Fulton? Why are Constance and her date, and the disabled kids, and a few others at the Country Club prom, and lots more kids at Evergreen? Simple, because the latter location was a Potemkin Prom, there to keep Constance (and maybe the disabled kids) away from where the rented limousines and party dresses and loud tuxedos really were.

You write:

Secondly, there was not a problem she was told "If you show up with your girlfriend and/or in a tux you MAY be asked to leave IF it makes anyone uncomfortable."

This really raises the question: Are the students, parents, administrators etc. at IAHS so insecure about a same-sex teenage couple, one wearing a tuxedo, that they would give them the boot because SOMEBODY might be uncomfortable? How many people need to get the heebie-jeebies? One? Two? Twenty? Two-hundred?

Since when has accommodating bigotry been a small-town value? I think you‘ve shown your true colors.


Lisa Derrick | Friday April 9, 2010 12:34 pm 258
In response to fentdog @ 247

Thanks Fentdog.

Hey what do you know about the other two parent run events? Were they fun? How manykids went to Evergren?


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 12:34 pm 259

MSrealist I live less than an hour away from IAHS, and do you know what we’re doing in my even smaller Mississippi town? We’re laughing our heads off at y’all. Why? Because a few years ago we had tuxedo-wearing lesbians at our prom without having to make a literal Federal case out of it.

If the school came off looking bad because of something a Vice Principal said that the press found out about, it was the job of his boss to go to the press and issue a clarification, and made it clear that it was all right for Constance to come to the prom with her girlfriend and wearing her tux. The Principal could have done it. The Superintendent could have done it. The head of the school board could have done it. They didn’t, and if y’all had as many microphones being shoved in your faces every day as you claim, it wasn’t for lack of opportunity.


ilsita | Friday April 9, 2010 12:37 pm 260
In response to smishsmash @ 253

Oh I know it’s hard to parse the grammar and syntax displayed by the products of this top school. I come from a small, proudly ignorant (seriously… “ignorant” is not an insult where I’m from!) town, too.

But I also think that it’s important to take them on. They’re the actual ones responsible for this. And while it’s a plain fact that you’re not ever going to make an impression, you will, at the very least, let them know that they oughta maybe think again before they try to put their small, hard-hearted logic on display. And thinking again is always a good thing.


smishsmash | Friday April 9, 2010 12:39 pm 261

Msrealist, You are joking, right? You don’t actually think that this case would have been litigated in front of a Federal Judge if the issue was that the school district told her she was welcome to attend but that in the unlikely event that anyone complained they may have to regretfully and politely talk to her about it, right? You can’t really think constitutional lawyers spent all this time and effort just because someone didn’t know what the deadline for buying tickets was. This most be satire.

Why is it always the people crying out for people to “learn the facts” that seem to have the most tenuous grasp of what is going on?


actor212 | Friday April 9, 2010 12:55 pm 262
In response to softballgirl10 @ 65

SHE WAS DOING THIS FOR TO GET PEOPLE TO STARE AT HER

Errrrrrrrrrrr, what’s a prom dress for, again?

Bigot.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 12:57 pm 263
In response to ilsita @ 256

OK so clarification is in order apparently, when the school board canceled the 1st real prom, the parents organized a prom that everyone one was invited to including Constance it was to be held at the TFM but she missed the deadline to buy the ticket. The sponsors of that prom canceled it because they were afraid they would get sued.

The Private Party/Prom whatever you want to call it was held at a community center that also has family reunion and other private events upon reservation, so they had every right to exclude who they wanted.

I did not say she had to keep intentions secretive about the prom what was said is “yes its hard living there if you are different, you may have to be secretive about certain aspects of your life which isn’t right you should be able to be who you want to be ”
But if she just wanted to go to prom and not cause all the uproar she should have went to prom with her date and in the tux IF she was asked to leave then take an appropriate stand.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 01:04 pm 264
In response to msrealist @ 263

um, it was reported that she was “one hour” late trying to buy the ticket, and that she was PROHIBITED from bringing a same-sex date to it, so the parents claimed to “cancel” that prom. it looks like they just moved it (using the same theme and decorations that were supposed to be used for the real prom), and the fake prom was then created for constance. the private prom was called a “party” until the pictures all over facebook made it obvious it was not.


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 01:11 pm 265

“when the school board canceled the 1st real prom”

Okay, so you admit the school board cancelled the first “real” prom. Constance didn’t cancel the prom, the school board cancelled the prom. So why blame Constance for this mess?


ilsita | Friday April 9, 2010 01:13 pm 266
In response to msrealist @ 255

(Dang, I lost all my formatting when I hit the submit button. I’m sorry about the mess of a response to msrealist.)

And yes that was REALLY THE PROM, if it wasn’t then why were school officials there? Why did EVERYONE KNOW about that Prom? Just because the parents of other students has a Private Parent Sponsored Prom doesnt make the one at the country club any less real.

As I said above, this is just technicality. Everyone knows what the intention was. If you believe in God, you should also know that it doesn’t matter whether or not you can convince us. Convince Him. We could all buy into your “that was REALLY THE PROM,” but you know better, and as long as you do, so will He. Good luck with that.

And if you’re not answering to God, but to your own conscience, then you might want to really get right with terms like “honesty” and “ethics.” There’s no belief system in the world that will allow you to get away with this passive aggressive dishonesty and flat out gaslighting.

They canceled that prom yes…..because they thought they would get sued for having a deadline

OK, forget about God: you do realize you’re talking to a bunch of people who can read, yeah? You realize that the legal documents are online? I think you’re in a little over your head…

The point is the parents canceled the prom at the TFM so that there wouldn’t be any controversy with Constance.

Its not because she is a Lesbian its because she causes drama and furthermore I’m glad the Jr’s and Sr’s got to have a short lived fun night, even though they are now getting ridiculed about it!!

Wait… they canceled it because they thought they’d get sued for having a deadline? Or because they didn’t want any controversy with Constance? Which is it?

But…what? I thought they didn’t cancel it. There was a “real prom” that Constance got to go to…

Try again msrealist. Think it through this time. Try not to contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Proofread for consistency and logic.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:16 pm 267

I currently as said in my first post do not live in Itawamba county any longer, from my understanding from the local newspaper and from what she said on all the national shows that the reason she went to the ACLU was because she asked the Vice Principal if it would be ok for her to bring her girlfriend, which she knew could not go, and wear a tux. His answer was “If you show up with your girlfriend and/or in a tux you MAY be asked to leave IF it made anyone (students)uncomfortable.” She decide instead just to go to the ACLU instead of just showing up at the prom. SHE ASSUMED SOMEONE WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT!! But it amazes me that someone would have a problem with it when in all the interviews and news reports she never mentions being bullied, discriminated against, or harassed before the Original School Sponsored Prom was canceled.

So using a tad bit of logic if she was wanting to create some sort of attention toward her then why would she jump the gun before anything even actually happened?

And before anyone say anything about the “flier” that was passed out with information about the prom they’ve been handing those out to ALL Jr’s, Sr’s and prom attendees since the 1990s. I got 4 of them one for each year I attended the IAHS prom I attended all 4 years of my high school experience. So shes not only got one her Sr year she got one EVERY YEAR she attended the prom. She cant say she didn’t know the rules ahead of time. So, did she go to the prom any other year? If so why not bring it up then?

I don’t like being called a bigot, I have no problem with any GLBT person, I have Gay and Lesbian family members on mine and my husbands side of the family. I think Constance is a brave person for what she is doing, I just think she should have waited to see IF they would discriminate against her at the Original Prom (not the TFM Prom or the Private Prom or the Spuff/Fake Prom) the original prom they went to court over.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 01:17 pm 268
In response to msrealist @ 263

You do know that we have all seen all of your hateful, bigoted Facebook conversations, right? Every action you have taken is well documented and more than speaks for itself.

Attempting to backtrack, explain away your actions, and blame the victim only digs the hole deeper and deeper. Probably better for you to either apologize or keep quiet until (if) it simmers down.

Right now I doubt there’s any argument you can make up that makes Fulton’s actions anything other than reprehensible. Collectively shifting your shame onto Constance is perhaps even uglier than the original offense.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:21 pm 269

milowent

She tried to by the ticket 2 days late here’s the link to the article from the counties newspaper: http://www.itawamba360.com/view/full_story/6885095/article-UPDATE–IAHS-parent-sponsored-prom-back-on?


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 01:21 pm 270
In response to msrealist @ 267

Are you saying that Constance should have broken the rules and then seen if she would get into trouble rather than tryng to change the rules for the benefit of herself and other students? Are you encouraging rule-breaking by students?


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:30 pm 271

missgrey

I’m sorry you have me confused with someone else, I have never made hate filled comment on Facebook and furthermore this is only the second place I have said anything about the issue. I’m not sure who you are confusing me with or why you may think i am them.

I also will not apologize for anything I have said because this is just how I think. I was raised in a small community in Itawamba County and spent my whole life their until 6-7 years ago when I decided to go after what I wanted, Now I live in Raleigh NC. So please unless you know who I am, I would suggest stop assuming you know something before you have all the facts and if you want I will invite you to be a Friend on my facebook page to show you I am not who you think I am.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 01:35 pm 272
In response to msrealist @ 269

OK, i see that, but USA Today reported 1 hour and attributed it to a Ms. Lori Byrd:

“Byrd said tickets were on sale for two weeks at a local formal wear shop, but McMillen waited until an hour after the deadline to try to purchase one”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-30-prom_N.htm

if she REALLY was well-past the deadline, why should the school be worried about a lawsuit? something is missing from the public on that i think.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:36 pm 273

She would not technically have been breaking the rules technically, since apparently i like to play on words. If she showed up and was told to leave then she would have had a legitimate reason to go to the ACLU with all the documentation she needed and it would have changed a lot for other students in her predicament. Because then they couldn’t deny they had done her wrong and they would have HAD to change the policies.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 01:37 pm 274

msrealist: whose “birthday” was the “secret prom” supposed to be for?


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:39 pm 275

milowent

that’s just it there are so many stories floating around out there, which ones are really the truth. I had no clue about the USA Today report I usually only go off of the local papers that are right there and talk to the actual participants of the issue.

Thanks for the link.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 01:40 pm 276
In response to msrealist @ 263

the parents organized a prom that everyone one was invited to including Constance it was to be held at the TFM but she missed the deadline to buy the ticket. The sponsors of that prom canceled it because they were afraid they would get sued.

Let me understand this. They canceled the whole prom instead of making the problem go away by selling Constance a late ticket? This doesn‘t pass the smell test. Strike One.

The Private Party/Prom whatever you want to call it was held at a community center that also has family reunion and other private events upon reservation, so they had every right to exclude who they wanted.

Sure they did. The issue is not their rights, but their conduct. The organizers had a right to exclude people, but that doesn‘t give them a free pass from being called on their choices. They made a shameful choice to exclude Constance (and possibly the disabled kids) because they are different. The kids who went, and the parents who acceded to this should be ashamed as well. Strike Two.

But if she just wanted to go to prom and not cause all the uproar she should have went to prom with her date and in the tux IF she was asked to leave then take an appropriate stand.

Are you serious? Constance should have had the assurance before she went to the prom that she would be treated like anyone else. She deserved that assurance so there wouldn‘t be drama, and I think she didn‘t want to surprise anyone. You‘re saying she should have taken her chances in a heated, contentious and uncertain situation.

Strike three. You‘re playing baseball with your shovel.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:41 pm 277

Never heard it was a birthday party! To my knowledge it was just a Private Party. Is someone saying it was a birthday party?


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 01:42 pm 278
In response to msrealist @ 271

I apologize for assuming that you are one of the Fulton parents whose outrageously bigoted and hateful conversations were observed on Facebook.

Those conversations, now screep-captured after embarrassed people deleted them, leave no doubt whatsoever as to their bigotry and dishonest intentions. I doubt that anyone here cares about the trivial specifics of the case (when tickets were due to purchase, whether Constance actually knew about the prom to which she was not invited, how long Constance stayed at the fake prom, or whether Constance is a likeable person). The facts as they present themselves are as follows:
• The town discriminates against people whose gender presentation or sexual orientation is not the norm, up to actually chasing a transgendered teen out of town.
• The town was under court order to rectify this discrimination.
• The town engaged in massive deception, violating the court order, all to humiliate and ostracize those perceived as outsiders, including learning disabled kids.
• Every response to the legitimate criticism of these reprehensible behaviors has been met with yet more bigotry, close-mindedness, doublespeak, and profanity – I’ve seen this from the teens and parents alike.

Until someone involved steps up and acknowledges how disgusting and shameful this kind of behavior actually was – especially from the adults who should know better! – all these petty whines about what a rotten person Constance is and why didn’t Constance buy her tickets on time only serve to make the town look WAY, WAY WORSE. I don’t think the town can really afford to look any worse at this point.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 01:50 pm 279
In response to msrealist @ 277

i saw posts really early on about some kids going to a “birthday party” which seemed really odd to me.

and i agree there’s a conflict between the DJ report and the USAToday report on the ticket.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:50 pm 280

Zaph,

at the time she was asking was way before the prom was going to be held (months before)it was not heated until the ACLU got involved so is it not logical to say if she would have just went nothing would have happened? I mean is it a possibility that she could have went the way she wanted and there wouldn’t have been a controversy?

I will quote lioness
“MSrealist I live less than an hour away from IAHS, and do you know what we’re doing in my even smaller Mississippi town? We’re laughing our heads off at y’all. Why? Because a few years ago we had tuxedo-wearing lesbians at our prom without having to make a literal Federal case out of it.”

She could have done like these two you ladies and possibly nothing would come out of it. But no she didn’t try it the way these two young ladies did, she went to the ACLU. I don’t know how I can make that point more clearer. Thank you lioness your comment made a very valid point.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 01:53 pm 281

Sorry, my last post got a little munged in the ether.

msrealist sez:

the parents organized a prom that everyone one was invited to including Constance it was to be held at the TFM but she missed the deadline to buy the ticket. The sponsors of that prom canceled it because they were afraid they would get sued.

Let me understand this. They canceled the whole prom instead of making the problem go away by selling Constance a late ticket? This doesn‘t pass the smell test. Strike One.

The Private Party/Prom whatever you want to call it was held at a community center that also has family reunion and other private events upon reservation, so they had every right to exclude who they wanted.

Sure they did, but the issue is not their right, but their conduct. The organizers of the Evergreen prom chose to exclude Constance because she‘s an unapolgetic lesbian, and quite possibly the disabled kids because, well, they‘re disabled. It was a shameful choice they had a right to make, but that right doesn‘t include a pass from being called on it. Nor does it give the promgoers and their parents a pass from enabling this bigotry. Strike Two.

But if she just wanted to go to prom and not cause all the uproar she should have went to prom with her date and in the tux IF she was asked to leave then take an appropriate stand.

Are you serious? Constance should have had the assurance before she went to the prom that she would be treated like anyone else. She deserved that assurance so there wouldn‘t be drama, and I think she didn‘t want to surprise anyone. You‘re saying she should have taken her chances in a heated, contentious and uncertain situation.

Strike three. You‘re playing baseball with your shovel.


ilsita | Friday April 9, 2010 01:53 pm 282
In response to msrealist @ 263

OK so clarification is in order apparently, when the school board canceled the 1st real prom, the parents organized a prom that everyone one was invited to including Constance it was to be held at the TFM but she missed the deadline to buy the ticket. The sponsors of that prom canceled it because they were afraid they would get sued.

If everyone was invited, then why on earth didn’t they just have the prom? The original prom. The prom that actually happened where it was supposed to happen, and that Constance showed up for?

As someone mentioned above, it just doesn’t pass the Occam’s Razor test… or, as I mentioned, the Judge Judy test. It doesn’t make any sense.

Please get the gist of my question: If this private prom was to be held for everyone, including Constance, her date and her tux, then why bother changing the venue? Why the need for a private prom, unless the private-ness of the prom made it possible to dictate rules that would be considered unconstitutional in a public venue?

Why not hold an official prom?

Oh, right, you did hold an official prom. Which we are supposed to believe was canceled?

And, more logically, if Constance missed the deadline, and they were afraid of being sued for having a deadline, then wouldn’t it be less trouble to extend the deadline than to, both, hold the official prom, and organize a completely separate and second new private event? This doesn’t make any sense to the rest of the world, you know? I don’t think you can make it make sense (and the tragedy is that, even if you realize you can’t make it make sense, you will stand your ground). I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you believe what you’re saying, but if that’s the case, you have to realize that when you lay it all out like this, it just sounds like a county-wide pee-pants tantrum. It doesn’t make any sense at all.

The Private Party/Prom whatever you want to call it was held at a community center that also has family reunion and other private events upon reservation, so they had every right to exclude who they wanted.

Of course they did, which is why they did it there. As I mentioned, you have some reconciling to do… Legally, they were within their rights. Morally, and as Christians, not so much. (And as I said, you can try all you want to convince us, but you still have to convince God, and there’s someone you can’t gaslight.)

I did not say she had to keep intentions secretive about the prom what was said is “yes its hard living there if you are different, you may have to be secretive about certain aspects of your life which isn’t right you should be able to be who you want to be ”
But if she just wanted to go to prom and not cause all the uproar she should have went to prom with her date and in the tux IF she was asked to leave then take an appropriate stand.

But, how on earth could she have prevented the uproar except by keeping her intentions secret? The uproar was generated by the people who objected, not by Constance.

Here’s the thing: Constance was discriminated against. She was going to do her thing and she talked about it (who wouldn’t?). But the powers-that-be got wind and made a case out of it. They complicated things. You expect her, both, to have kept it to herself, and to take a chance on being 86ed from prom. I wouldn’t want to plan for memorable prom and just take my chances on getting kicked out as soon as I arrived.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 01:58 pm 283

Missgrey

You really know what you are talking about huh? (Seriously) all I was trying to say is what I just posted (post 280). I really think she should have let it play out and not jumped the gun assuming something bad would happen. She should have the same rights as everyone else and all this aside, even though many may not like it, most 75% of Itawambian’s don’t really mind the whole sexuality issue. They are like most small town except they have a community college and they see people of all sorts. I know this because I grew up at ICC on Campus with my Mom & Dad. Im not a bigot I was brought up just as Constance says she was to love me for who I am not what everyone thinks I should be. Yeah they may look/gawk and whisper but they are all (mostly) hospitable.

As I stated I am not going to apologize for anything I have said I believe all of it.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 02:03 pm 284

Sorry. Something about this posting software snips out the odd paragraph.

Msrealist said that the Evergreen Prom organizers had the right to exclude whoever they wanted. Sure they did, but the issue is not their rights, but their conduct. They made the choice to exclude Constance because she is a lesbian. They also may have made the choice to exclude the disabled kids, because, well, they are disabled. But the right to make that choice does not include a free pass from being called on it. Nor does it absolve the promgoers and their parents from enabling this bigotry. Msrealist, that was your strike two.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 02:07 pm 285

ilsita

I’m sorry you don’t agree with me, I don’t agree with you either. I would rater try to go to the prom as myself in what attire i wanted and get kicked out before I enter than make a big ordeal and the whole thing be canceled. I don’t understand why people don’t understand this. There is also a prom held by the MSSC for ALL students so she could have still had a prom IF she had gotten kicked out and had a lock tight court case to boot. So can you tell me why all the publicity was and is still needed.

The school has the right not to host a prom, Constance tried to get them to reinstate the school sponsored prom but the Federal Judge did not find it necessary to make the school sponsor it.


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 02:07 pm 286
In response to msrealist @ 280

MSrealist, in my small Mississippi town the girl DID ask about bringing her girlfriend and wearing a tux in advance. Fortunately our school board has a lawyer who isn’t a total dummy, and he told the school board to drop the issue and not make a fuss because “if you don’t you’ll look like idiots when, not if, the press gets hold of it.” Both the girl and her date wore tuxedos, a fun time was had by all, and it didn’t even make the local paper, let alone the international press.


ilsita | Friday April 9, 2010 02:08 pm 287

I really think she should have let it play out and not jumped the gun assuming something bad would happen.

Why?

Why shouldn’t she have the right to go to the prom, wearing exactly the same thing that other classmates are wearing, with the companion of her choice, without wondering whether she would be sent home for it? Why would you expect her to go to prom with potential rejection hanging over her head when her classmates don’t have the same threat hanging over their heads?


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 02:10 pm 288
In response to msrealist @ 283

I have been following this closely, and yes, reading through the screencapped conversations between Fulton parents and teens leaves little doubt as to their intentional deception and blatant bigotry. I don’t see why Constance *wouldn’t* have assumed something bad would happen after her friend Juin was ostracized right out of town for wearing the wrong clothes to school. In fact if all of her actions were an elaborately crafted ruse to get the ACLU involved in Fulton’s bigoted behavior (as some Fultonites are complaining), I applaud her even more.

Who was it that said upthread, “If that many people say you are drunk, sit down?” People never see their own prejudice – that’s why it’s really important for me to pay close attention when someone tells me that I have done something prejudiced. I may not see it, but the people affected by my behavior see it clearly. People around the world, people who have experienced similar bigotry, are calling this blatant bigotry. Might that not be correct?

It doesn’t make the townspeople of Fulton stupid, or “hicks,” or unkind in other ways. It doesn’t mean that they aren’t perfectly “nice” people who pay lip service to “diversity” in their daily lives. I’m just saying that this was a bigoted act, in a pattern of other bigoted acts, that were wrong and bigoted and should be apologized for and corrected. And going along with bigotry and hatred in silence, as you claim 75% of those involved did, is never an excuse.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 02:13 pm 289

Zaph you said it it has to do with their conduct, I am not going to take up for them and if i gave that impression I’m sorry for that but the issue is what they did was legal, was it moral or ethical? No and even though I refuse to get into the whole religious aspect of it was not Christian like. But it was absolutely Legal. I go to a church that preaches Homosexuality is a sin, I haven’t made up my mind if I believe it is a sin or if it isn’t.

And as far as the strikes go I haven’t done anything wrong these are just my opinions and observation so I could easily say you are striking out also but I’m not because as much as I may disagree with people on here, I don’t know them or you so I will respect you opinions even if I don’t like or agree with them.


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 02:17 pm 290
In response to msrealist @ 273

She would not technically have been breaking the rules technically, since apparently i like to play on words.

Either she would have been breaking the rules or she wouldn’t. There is no “technically” about it.

If she showed up and was told to leave then she would have had a legitimate reason to go to the ACLU with all the documentation she needed and it would have changed a lot for other students in her predicament. Because then they couldn’t deny they had done her wrong and they would have HAD to change the policies.

Let me get this straight. The child following the proper proceedure and asking if an unjust rule was going to be used to discriminate against her was a bad thing to do? Not following the proper proceedure and breaking the rule would have been a good thing to do?

A child following the rules = bad!
A child breaking the rules = good!

Y’know, that’s not something I’ve ever heard said seriously in Mississippi before now.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 02:20 pm 291

Msrealist, i added the birthday party weirdness to the bottom of my blogpost so people could weigh in. whatever it was, its a bit weird (and possibly meaningless)

http://milowent.blogspot.com/2010/04/itawamba-private-prom-was-continuation.html


ilsita | Friday April 9, 2010 02:21 pm 292

So can you tell me why all the publicity was and is still needed.

Yes, I can tell you: Publicity is the bright light of day. It’s like flicking on the light in a cockroach-infested kitchen at night.

The abuser’s most common defense is “It’s none of your goddamn business!”

Publicity is the court of public opinion.

Are you suggesting that shining a light on shitty behavior is shittier behavior? People who act like bullies should be sheltered?

You know, the Pope is blaming the media, too.


missfag | Friday April 9, 2010 02:21 pm 293
In response to lioness @ 259

@lioness, you’re my new best friend on this thread. I love the way you see things!

@msrealist, if you’re going to quote someone, at least have the decency not to misrepresent what they were saying. The clear point from lioness’ post was that the school — not Constance — caused this mess. You twisted a partial quote from her to support your position that this is all Constance’s fault.

And to that point… Are you really condemning Constance for trying to defend her rights? Do you really think she’s in the wrong for asking for assurances in advance that she wouldn’t be asked to leave her prom just because someone else is “uncomfortable”?

Here’s how an adult would have handled the situation: “Constance, you can show up with your girlfriend and/or in a tux. You may be asked to leave if it makes anyone uncomfortable. If someone has a problem with it, let me know and I’ll take care of it.”


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 02:29 pm 294
In response to msrealist @ 289

Thank you, msrealist, and my apologies for making my remarks personal.


msrealist | Friday April 9, 2010 02:32 pm 295

ok Im defeated, I really wasn’t trying to change your opinions but its apparent that none of us have the intentions of digging for the REAL ABSOLUTE facts. I stand by she should have waited but that is my opinion and I am allowed to have it. I am up for a healthy debate anytime but as with all you who say people are close-minded for not seeing your views the way you want them to you need to look in the mirror because you are closed-minded too everyone has to conform at some point this is why society is the way it is today because their are so many people out there that will not open up and at least acknowledge there are other paths to take. I agree with a lot of your posts Constance was done wrong but there are 2 sides to every story listen to the possibilities consider them and choose the most logical. Society is all about suing for everything now a days and not looking for a better way IF there is one. Sorry if I offended anyone I suppose debating isn’t as cut and dry as it use to be.


Lisa Derrick | Friday April 9, 2010 02:35 pm 296

Hey all, Lisa Derrick/La Figa. I’ve got another story up here with a very interesting link to a pair of what appears to be IAHS female students kissing at the Evergreen prom.


Lisa Derrick | Friday April 9, 2010 02:36 pm 297
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 296

Guess it’s okay to be “fake” lesbians at a “masquerade.”


Lisa Derrick | Friday April 9, 2010 02:37 pm 298

Also, could we kindly avoid profanity? Thanks, La Figa


missfag | Friday April 9, 2010 03:13 pm 299
In response to msrealist @ 295

It’s funny, @msrealist, how the left is always condemned for its “moral relativism”, but when someone’s rights are being debated, there are “other paths to take” and “two sides to every story”.

No, msrealist, in a situation like this there’s right and there’s wrong, fair and unfair, ugly and neighborly. As @lioness pointed out, the community had plenty of opportunities to do the right thing, but chose instead to dig their heels in at every turn and make matters worse. Constance dug her heels in, too, but she was doing it for noble — not narrow-minded — reasons.


avivb | Friday April 9, 2010 03:30 pm 300

MSrealist:
You said:
But if she just wanted to go to prom and not cause all the uproar she should have went to prom with her date and in the tux IF she was asked to leave then take an appropriate stand.

Uh no – you are wrong. Why should anyone else have any say about what people where to a prom as long as its dressy clothing? Would a dressy pants suit have been exceptable? And if you say yes, how can you distinguish between a tailored pants suit and a tux? Why was the tux specifically excluded in the invitation?

After all, when I look at the dresses some of the attendees at the real/fake/prom/birthday party wore its clear that we are not dealing with some type of high fashion snobbery.

First, some of these young ladies are dressed much too skimpy for my taste. What if that made me uncomfortable – conservative dresser that I am? Were you told you might be asked to leave if you wore dresses that were too short, cut too low, were too sexy, showed bad fashion sense, didn’t fit right, allowed fat to hang out in a zillion places.

Frankly fat roles are very upsetting to me, having to look at them (along with heavy calves and ankles) would have ruined my prom experience. Ditto for teal, rasberry or any sherbert colored dresses regardless of the flavor being worn. I think they are distracting and tacky. Would you have been excluded for upsetting my sensibilities? Of course not.

But a girl wearing a tux – wow – how offensive. Hon, my gorgeous cousin got married last year and all her bridesmaids wore tuxes. All the bridesmaids were straight and looked sexy and feminine. Not a fat role to be seen. Very little skin to be seen period. And praise the Lord, not a bit of teal, emerald green or pink to be seen anywhere.

Perhaps you might want to take a look at the fashions that we city slickers wear when we dress up. Try Vogue not Cosmo. Or for a classic look, go on the Internet and look at the fashions of Garbo or perhaps Hepburn.

Your excuses are pathetic. What would have been interesting is if a straight gal like me had shown up in a tux. Who wants to bet that it wouldn’t have been any big deal.

I’d have a lot more respect for you and your town if you would admit you behaved badly, said you were sorry and made acts of contrition. That’s what my religion would require me to do. Guess your brand of Christianity doesn’t require this of you.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 05:28 pm 301
In response to msrealist @ 295

Msrealist, it‘s really not my goal to defeat you. I‘m not at war with you, or Fulton. While some of my comments were intemperate, which I regret, I‘m not trying to humiliate you. But I am trying to get you and, insofar as I can, anybody else who‘s reading to really think about what happened to Constance, and why it happened.

Yes, there has been a lot of mudslinging, but I think many people have listened, in good faith, to the people from Fulton defending themselves: you, begleg10, softballgirl10, coke80 and fentdog. Most of their arguments and histories didn‘t hold water, and, importantly, people told them why they didn‘t hold water. That IS debate. Cut and dry.

Ultimately, I‘m here, and I suspect many others are here not because beating up on Fulton is a fun thing to do, but I am appalled by the homophobia displayed against Constance, and the dissembling justifications put forth by Constance‘s peers, their parents and school administrators. Homophobia in our schools is a serious, ugly problem that too many schools boards avoid addressing — Fulton being a clear-cut example.

Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered teenagers have always been in our schools, even IAHS, and they always will be. They do not choose their orientation, and they do not deserve any less safety or respect than anyone else there.

Homophobia victimizes kids. It traumatizes kids. Some kids commit suicide. Some kids get killed. So much long-term damage, and for what? So that some jock can feel superior? So that some girl clique can have a giggle? So that some preacher can assert his authority? Fear and loathing of The Gay is not a license to hate without taking moral responsibility, but it sure is used that way — by many students, teachers, parents and administrators. This has got to stop, and if a harsh spotlight shining on Fulton helps to do this, then that‘s a good thing. It‘s good for Fulton, and other places and institutions that are learning from Fulton‘s mistakes.

Just think for a minute. If homophobia was as unwelcome in our schools as racism, then Constance would have had her prom, we wouldn‘t know her name, and we wouldn‘t be having this discussion. She‘d be just another high school senior, and that would be fine.


trademarkdave | Friday April 9, 2010 05:47 pm 302

What a bunch of misanthropic asshole fucks. The funny part is, Constance has a $30k scholarship to get the fuck out of that hellhole and then there’s all the money she’ll get for the book, film and TV rights to her story. While these morons are struggling to get a job at WalMart, she’ll be leading a fulfilling, exciting life in the civilized world. KARMA’S A BITCH!


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 06:40 pm 303

Even if the judge had ordered the school to have a prom and accept Constance McMillen wearing a tux and bringing her date, the students would have boycotted it. The fact (as far as I can see)that not one student came to her defense, tells me there was more going on.
I would not doubt, from now on there will not be a public prom, all proms will be private.
I also wish people would stop using the term “homophobic” for anyone who does not accept your life style. I don’t like Bush, so would I be “Bushaphobic”? Just because I don’t agree with your life style does not mean I fear it.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 07:19 pm 304

Even Wikipedia knows that “homophobia” is not just a term for the irrational fear of gay people, but encompasses a range of negative behavior toward gay people (and those perceived to be gay): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

And for the last time, people….it’s not a “life style” and there is no “agreeing” or “disagreeing” with it. Homosexuality occurs in almost every species, has been part of human sexuality since before we split off from the other primates, and is no more a “lifestyle” than being differently abled or left-handed is a “lifestyle.”

I’m sorry it’s easier to parrot some tired conservative/religious talking points than it is to actually consider the humanity and life experience of others. :(


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 07:25 pm 305
In response to john789 @ 303

Even if the judge had ordered the school to have a prom and accept Constance McMillen wearing a tux and bringing her date, the students would have boycotted it.

Actually, the same squabbles have happened elsewhere in the South but were settled beforehand, and the prom went on as normal. You think a gay kid is going keep others from the only prom in town?

The fact (as far as I can see)that not one student came to her defense, tells me there was more going on.

Actually, fentdog partially came to her defense. As for others, peer pressure, and parental admonitions not to dig a deeper hole on Facebook might have had something to do with it.

I would not doubt, from now on there will not be a public prom, all proms will be private.

Nothing like a segregated prom to keep you out of the papers.

I also wish people would stop using the term "homophobic" for anyone who does not accept your life style.

Which lifestyle are you talking about? Progressive lifestyle? Tolerant lifestyle? Accepting lifestyle? Tired-of-homophobic-bullshit lifestyle? The word is defined in the Random House dictionary, and don‘t assume that all people who use that word are gay.

I don’t like Bush, so would I be "Bushaphobic"? Just because I don’t agree with your life style does not mean I fear it.

Lifestyle again. You make it sound like being gay is something out a catalog. But if the word "homophobe" bothers you, would the appellation "bigot" work better? Seriously.


pinko | Friday April 9, 2010 07:26 pm 306

I’m calling Poe’s Law on Msrealist, (yeah I know it’s kind of off the mark as she is not spouting religious rhetoric, but it was the closest term I could come up with to describe what I suspect is going on). I’m not buying it at all. I think she is a fake who is trying to further discredit the people of Fulton, (as if they need any help with that). I suspect she is pretending to be someone she is not to make these rubes look even more insane than they actually are. Or she is just a really bad sort of wrong minded unapologetic hick with a thick pair of blinders on, (but I think she is a fake).


sdpty | Friday April 9, 2010 07:28 pm 307

Discrimination is the only “life-style choice” in this current event.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 07:51 pm 308
In response to zaph @ 305

“Nothing like a segregated prom to keep you out of the papers.”

Anytime you have PRIVATE party it is segreated, those who I invite and those I don’t invite. Start your own party.

“Lifestyle again. You make it sound like being gay is something out a catalog. But if the word “homophobe” bothers you, would the appellation “bigot” work better? Seriously.”

OK, lets call it what it really is, a sexual life style. You define the gay life by who you have sex with. The homophope does not bother me, but it clear you don’t know what a phobia is:

A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, phóbos, meaning “fear” or “morbid fear”) is an intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people.

It does not mean to have a disagreement with.


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 08:08 pm 309
In response to john789 @ 308

John789, one does not pass rules and laws to restrict the acions of people one merely disagrees with. If someone is going to go to that length to be — disagreeable to one’s fellows — there is more than just a differance if opinion at stake.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:10 pm 310
In response to missgrey @ 304

“And for the last time, people….it’s not a “life style””

Then let’s call it what it is, a sexual life style. Heterosexual means having sex with the opposite sex, homosexual means having sex with the same sex. It’s all about sex, a sexual life style.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 08:11 pm 311
In response to john789 @ 308

Anytime you have PRIVATE party it is segreated, those who I invite and those I don’t invite. Start your own party.

Semantics. By your reasoning, ANY prom is segregated because by definition it‘s meant for high school students. Sorry, but when you start keeping people out because of the color of their skin, or their sexual orientation, or a disability, that‘s segregation as the term is understood. Try keeping that out of the papers. Try it and not get called on it.

But since we‘re trading definitions:

Homophobia

Origin: 1955–60; homo(sexual) + -phobia
Unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.
(Random House Dictionary)

1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.
(American Heritage Dictionary)

Irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.
(Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary)

Emphasis added.

I like how you got the greek characters to work on this board. Sweet.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:14 pm 312

“one does not pass rules and laws to restrict the acions of people one merely disagrees with”

HUH? What laws were passed that restricted anyone? Are you talking about private parties? Private parties are legal. You can have a party and invite or not invite anyone you want for any reason.


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 08:16 pm 313

The ignorance that permeates this entire argument is above – that who you bed down with defines all that you are.

That the terms ‘heterosexual’ or ‘homosexual’ define anyone is ludicrous, unless you are inclined to pick and choose by that characteristic alone. And that is the very definition of discrimination.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:18 pm 314

zaph: It’s not semantics, it’s a legal fact. Private parties are just that, private, invitation only. It’s legal discrimination. There is such a thing as “legal discrimination”. I invite the people I want to, and do not invite people I don’t want, to any private party.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 08:20 pm 315

You define the gay life by who you have sex with

No. There are celibate people who self-identify as gay or lesbian. There are people who define themselves as bisexual even though they have only had relationships with one gender. There are people in the closet who have exclusively heterosexual sex, but whose affectional orientation is bisexual or homosexual.

There are gay people who interact mostly with other gay people, and there are gay people whose communities are mostly heterosexual. In fact, there are as many ways to be gay as there are ways to be straight. How is it a “lifestyle” when every single person does it uniquely?

Reducing the incredible complexity and individuality of human sexual attraction, affection and love to a simple binary of “normal” and “life stylers” cheapens us all.

“Misogyny” is understood to include a wide range of negative behavior and attitudes towards women because of their gender, even though the word literally translates to “hatred of women.” You don’t have to rape a woman in an alley to deny her equal rights in the workplace. Racism also appears in large and small gestures – it’s not necessary to burn a cross on someone’s lawn while wearing a white sheet to do a racist thing like tell a joke or quietly refuse to rent your apartment to a black couple. Similarly, “homophobia” is understood to include a wide range of negative attitudes and behavior towards those perceived to be gay. Whether you “disagree” with the very existence of gay people (coat it in “lifestyle” talk all you want – obviously it’s all code for “I think that’s icky”), or exclude them from normal social activities – like, oh, say, PROM, or tie them to a fence in Wyoming and leave them to die….it’s all homophobia.

But of course we are wasting our time here, because your prejudice will overcome any common sense arguments or request to see other people’s humanity rather than their pejorative social stereotypes.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:21 pm 316

“That the terms ‘heterosexual’ or ‘homosexual’ anyone is ludicrous, unless you are inclined to pick and choose by that characteristic alone. And that is the very definition of discrimination”

Now you want to get rid of ANY terms that define people? If that’s so, would you want to end the terms “minor” and “adult”? I don’t think so.


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 08:25 pm 317
In response to john789 @ 316

First, if you are going to quote me to me, please do it completely, without excluding words.

Second, do you belong to a country club?


drew084 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:25 pm 318

I wish you all would remember what it’s like to be a high school kid. Before you jump on me, I know this is NOT an excuse for the events that happened, but I think it can offer a little more understanding to the situation. I can’t imagine that every student at this school is as hateful, bigoted, and anti-gay as they are being generalized, they are simply teenagers. Yes, there are some who will take a stand, but honestly, being completely HONEST, how many of you would’ve gone against everyone else as a high schooler? I know I wouldn’t have, and I wish people would be a little more honest with themselves. I know that people taking extraordinary measures is what brings along change, and I do appreciate people so much more who are willing to take this stand, but can we really fault people if they are looking out for themselves? I think this, and so many other situations, need to be looked at in reality for what they are. It’s this hatred and misunderstanding of people that brings about so many problems (from both sides, of course). I commend msrealist for trying to explain this, or at least that’s what I got from it. And before I get bombarded with comments, I do not support what happened, but I also do not support the harsh generalizations that are being thrown at the students, small towns, and the south. Please try to remember that it’s these kind of prejudices that start such horrible situations as this.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 08:27 pm 319
In response to john789 @ 314

“zaph: It’s not semantics, it’s a legal fact. Private parties are just that, private, invitation only. It’s legal discrimination. There is such a thing as “legal discrimination”. I invite the people I want to, and do not invite people I don’t want, to any private party.”

i agree that true private parties may legally discriminate. however, i think the school district has some major problems, because the “secret prom” took the theme and decorations of the original school-sponsored prom. also, the 1st “private” prom was cancelled under mysterious circumstances. i have read the stories about that, but they don’t jive. they cancelled that prom, which would not have let constance attend with same-sex date, for some reason. if it was truly a private prom they would have had no fear.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:28 pm 320
In response to newtonusr @ 317

I did quote you completely? What did I miss? No I don’t belong to a country club, what does that matter?


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:31 pm 321

milowent: from what I’ve read the prom was public, put on by the school. The other one was outside of the school’s hands, it was private. That one was cancelled, I don’t know why, but it does not matter. It was a private party. The party they had was also private. The judge cannot rule for or against a private party.


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 08:34 pm 322
In response to john789 @ 320

This is what I wrote:

That the terms ‘heterosexual’ or ‘homosexual’ define anyone is ludicrous, unless you are inclined to pick and choose by that characteristic alone.

If you were invited to join in a country club, or were a member of one, would you be ticked off if others weren’t invited or allowed based on ‘one of those other’ orientations?


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:35 pm 323
In response to missgrey @ 315

Please, don’t water down the term.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 08:37 pm 324
In response to john789 @ 323

Dude, it’s only “watering it down” if you aren’t the recipient.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:38 pm 325

newtonusr: I did quote you completely because I did a copy and paste of what you said.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:39 pm 326

newtonusr: I have no problem with a country club keeping me out. It’s their right. I’ll take my money and spend it elsewhere.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 08:41 pm 327

missgrey: ” Dude, it’s only “watering it down” if you aren’t the recipient.”

HUH? Since when? Anyone can water down a term, any time, any where they want.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 08:41 pm 328
In response to john789 @ 314

zaph: It’s not semantics, it’s a legal fact. Private parties are just that, private, invitation only. It’s legal discrimination. There is such a thing as “legal discrimination”. I invite the people I want to, and do not invite people I don’t want, to any private party.

Oh, stop being obtuse. You can have a private party. You can even have a "private" prom. I‘m not arguing that. You can include or exclude whoever you want.

But do you really think anybody could throw a prom inviting the senior class … except, say, the gays, or the Hispanics, or the African-Americans, or the disabled, or the Jews, or whatever class of disfavored people whose "lifestyle" they don‘t like … and NOT get called on it? And do you think that the people going to a restricted soirée like that won‘t get called on it themselves?

That‘s exactly what happened in Fulton. They had a prom. Yes, it was private, but shamefully designed from the get-go to exclude a teenager because she was gay. They‘ve been called on it. Deal.


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 08:41 pm 329
In response to john789 @ 326

Let’s try this again, exactly the same:

If you were invited to join in a country club, or were a member of one, would you be ticked off if others weren’t invited or allowed based on ‘one of those other’ orientations?


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 08:47 pm 330

What laws were passed that restricted anyone?

Rules were passed which restricted a student from bringing the student she was dating to the prom if that student was of the same gender, and to keep her from wearing the formalwear (a tuxedo) of her choice. People do not make rules to ban actions over a mere “difference of opinion”. There has to be more at stake than that to drive the Fulton School Board to such lengths.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 08:49 pm 331
In response to john789 @ 327

Way to be intentionally obtuse.

Calling something “misogynist,” whether a big or small act, is not “watering it down.” Women know when they are being discriminated against. Ditto racism. Ditto homophobia.

But you know, I am done talking with you. Either you’re a very patient, somewhat polite troll, or you’re perfectly set in your prejudiced ways and no amount of me wasting my time is going to change that.


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 08:52 pm 332

Yes, there are some who will take a stand, but honestly, being completely HONEST, how many of you would’ve gone against everyone else as a high schooler?

*raises hand*

Yes it was hard, but I’m a better and happier person today because of it. It would have been hard for those students too, but if they had they would sleep better at night for the rest of their lives.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 08:52 pm 333
In response to john789 @ 321

milowent: from what I’ve read the prom was public, put on by the school. The other one was outside of the school’s hands, it was private. That one was cancelled, I don’t know why, but it does not matter. It was a private party. The party they had was also private. The judge cannot rule for or against a private party.

i think the judge can call bullshit based on what i’ve seen. someone calling it a “private party’ doesn’t mean its so if the school administration helped facilitate it, and gave over the theme and decorations developed for the school prom. we don’t have access to the evidence, but the NMissCommentor blog, which broke the private prom story, reported that the administration was supposedly complicit in what happened.

there was a also a weak coverup that happened. local residents who posted first online claimed that there was only one prom. but in the light of all the students calling it prom and posting photo albums of it as “prom” publicly (to which some parents said, “no, its only a PARTY this wasn’t a prom”), its more recently been described that there were “two proms”, one of which was “private” the stories change more often than a suspect’s on law and order.

also bad for the school district is the fact that the judge said he did not force the school to reinstitute its initial prom only because he was assured there was a 2nd prom that constance could attend. BUT he was lied to because constance was not going to be allowed to attend that prom with a date and wear a tux (usatoday reported on this). then as soon as that comes out, that prom is “cancelled”–and clearly that became the “private” prom at a new location.

it smells bad to me. you can’t fuck with a federal judge like that i would think.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 08:55 pm 334
In response to lioness @ 332

Ditto. I find this whole “oh, they had no choice, they were just kids” thing to be horribly disingenuous.

At the risk of invoking Godwin’s Law….most Germans weren’t Nazis, just normal folks who didn’t say anything and went along with the herd. That doesn’t make their silence OK.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 09:03 pm 335
In response to milowent @ 333

When the other private party was cancelled, the school went ahead with the prom, to keep to the ruling of the judge, that there would be a prom for Constance McMillen.
Whatever was used for the school prom, if it was private property, that person could do whatever they wanted to with it.
They can call it whatever they want, “prom”, “party”, it does not matter. No one owns the words. All that matters is, it was private. Even the ACLU admitted they may not have anywhere to do with this, since it was “private” and they did have a “public” prom for her.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 09:06 pm 336
In response to lioness @ 330

She had a prom, wore a tuxs and had a date. So what’s the problem? You don’t like the idea the other students “boycotted” the school prom and had a “private” party? They had that right.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 09:07 pm 337
In response to missgrey @ 334

I agree, the students had a choice and they made it. I support them in that.


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 09:11 pm 338
In response to john789 @ 337

…the students had a choice and they made it.

And now a federal judge will decide if parents and administrators skirted his judgment or crossed over beyond the letter and spirit.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 09:11 pm 339
In response to john789 @ 335

Nothing like hiding behind technicalities. Legally, maybe it might fly. Morally, it stinks.


lioness | Friday April 9, 2010 09:11 pm 340
In response to john789 @ 336

The school board should never have cancelled the first prom in the first place. That’s what kicked the whole thing into gear.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 09:12 pm 341
In response to john789 @ 335

taking the theme and decorations made for the school-sponsored prom? how do you think they got them? did they pay for the rights? i’d like to know.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 09:15 pm 342
In response to zaph @ 339

You may not like it, may not agree with it, but it’s the law. Everyone has rights.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 09:17 pm 343
In response to milowent @ 341

The school may not have owned the theme and decorations. I don’t know why they would, since each year it’s different. I believe students and parents provide all of it.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 09:19 pm 344
In response to newtonusr @ 338

No, they complied with his judgement. They had a prom for her to attend. That was his ONLY requirement.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 09:29 pm 345
In response to john789 @ 342

You may not like it, may not agree with it, but it’s the law. Everyone has rights.

And Constance McMillen fought and won the right to bring a same-sex date to the prom in front of federal judge. She was right. The school administration was wrong. That should have ended the story. But no.

She didn‘t go to a prom. She got a facade of a prom, along with the disabled kids.

Legal? Maybe. Justified? Moral? Ethical? Let‘s hear your answer, and don‘t avoid the question.


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 09:31 pm 346
In response to john789 @ 344

District officials said they felt not hosting the prom was the best decision “after taking into consideration the education, safety and well being of our students.” Superintendent Teresa McNeece said it was “a no-win situation.”

Nothing could be more disingenuous. And the judge will have a look-see.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 09:37 pm 347
In response to john789 @ 344

No, they complied with his judgement. They had a prom for her to attend. That was his ONLY requirement.

haha, that’s bullshit. i’ve seen it posted about on a local forum that they don’t believe that. that’s why they “cancelled” the 1st private prom, from what i have gathered.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 10:21 pm 348

It’s unclear who organized the other dance, said Kristy Bennett, ACLU Mississippi legal director. School officials and many of the locals won’t talk about it.

Bennett said “we’re investigating if the prom at the country club was a sham or a decoy.” But Bennett said she doesn’t know if there are any legal ramifications because the majority of students chose to go to an event that didn’t include McMillen.

“It’s evidence that what (school officials) represented to the judge didn’t happen,” Bennett said.

http://www.sunherald.com/2010/04/07/2083187/lesbian-student-says-prom-night.html#ixzz0kfhTZji8

They have no where to go with this, the students CHOSE another party. I agree it did not happen the way it was presented to the judge, BUT once it’s in PRIVATE hands, it’s out of the judge’s control.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 10:24 pm 349
In response to milowent @ 347

She had a prom. The school staff was there, other students were there. You just don’t like the fact that most of the students BOYCOTTED the prom. That’s their right.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 10:29 pm 350

interesting john, since one of the students who attended the prom posted on my blog tonight that the school district was going to lose their public funding for not letting constance go to the 1st “private” prom.

http://milowent.blogspot.com/2010/04/itawamba-private-prom-was-continuation.html (scroll to the most recent comments)

also, attorneys on the NMissCommentor (NMC) blog (including the guy that runs that blog) have posted that the school district appears to be in trouble because of what they did. so unless you’re an attorney, i’m going to give their comments a bit more credence.

NMC said:

“It’s the private prom that the school held out in a (successful) attempt to convince Judge Davidson not to order a school prom at which Constance could attend. 3) Sure, folks could have a private prom or party and not invite Constance. That’s not what happened here. The school tried to stop her from exercising her First Amendment rights, and I strongly suspect (looking at Milo’s evidence and the like) will be found to have played along if not helped the effort to have a fake prom and not include her in the secret prom, which had all the trappings that would have gone with the school sponsored prom in the first place, including the same theme.”

April 8th, 2010 at 5:12 pm at
http://nmisscommentor.com/2010/04/04/what-happened-at-constance-mcmillans-prom/comment-page-4/#comments


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 10:29 pm 351
In response to milowent @ 347

They cancelled the first prom, someone else was having a private prom and she was invited to that. The school was not ordered to have the prom. Whoever was going to do the prom cancelled it. That was out of the judge’s and school’s hands. Because of that, the school put on the prom. To meet the judge’s requirement. (The one they cancelled before). The students boycotted that prom.


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 10:33 pm 352
In response to john789 @ 349

John789:

I earlier said:

She didn‘t go to a prom. She got a facade of a prom, along with the disabled kids.

Legal? Maybe. Justified? Moral? Ethical? Let‘s hear your answer, and don‘t avoid the question.

Let‘s hear your answer, and don‘t avoid the question.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 10:40 pm 353
In response to milowent @ 350

Read the whole line: ” the parents didnt want to get sued and cause the school to loose there funding. so they gave it back to the school to hold.”

With all that was happening, the parents sponsering the first dance, the one the judge was told about, backed out. They gave it back to the school to hold the prom. That was their right, they did not want to get involved, for fear the school would lose funding.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 10:43 pm 354
In response to zaph @ 352

Was the prom in the same building where it was planned to be? Yes. Were school staff there? Yes. Were other students there? Yes. She even said the other students had the time of their lives. Sounds like the other students thought it was a prom. According to her own words the other students enjoyed it. She was the ONLY one who didn’t.


milowent | Friday April 9, 2010 10:48 pm 355

john, save it for the judge. good luck, buddy, you’ll need it.


Lisa Derrick | Friday April 9, 2010 10:50 pm 356

Hi, it’s Lisa Derrick/La Figa

Kindly restrain yourselves on the profanity. Thank you.

And I want to thank everyone who has been civilly conversing here, to those form Itawamba County who are sharing their perspectives and the ‘pups and guests who are responding thoughtfully.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 10:52 pm 357

Wow.

Were other students there? Yes. She even said the other students had the time of their lives. Sounds like the other students thought it was a prom. According to her own words the other students enjoyed it. She was the ONLY one who didn’t.

This may memorialize you as the biggest ~~~EDITED~~~ ever.

~~~ModNote: As per the author’s wishes, let’s try to remain constructive.~~~


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 10:55 pm 358
In response to milowent @ 355

Why would I need it? I’m not legally involved.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 10:56 pm 359
In response to missgrey @ 357

What’s wrong? Do facts upset you?


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 11:04 pm 360
In response to john789 @ 354

She even said the other students had the time of their lives. Sounds like the other students thought it was a prom. According to her own words the other students enjoyed it. She was the ONLY one who didn’t.

Nice try. Here‘s the quote in context:

Two students with learning difficulties were among the seven people at the country club event, McMillen recalls. “They had the time of their lives,” McMillen says. “That’s the one good thing that come out of this, [these kids] didn’t have to worry about people making fun of them [at their prom].”

John, you are so pwned.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 11:06 pm 361
In response to john789 @ 359

Facts??? Wow, stay classy, heartless libertarian guy.

Also, thanks for editing my mild profanity, which was pretty tame. I’m also a professional community manager/moderator (for major websites, even, I mean major) and this would have definitely passed under my mod radar. Just sayin’. I mean, look at the actual posts upthread…there are profanities galore, and also really offensive comments…

When you randomly delete profanities, but leave offensive ideas….that’s comment moderator fail.

From one professional to another! Think about the end result…..


TheLurkingMod | Friday April 9, 2010 11:10 pm 362
In response to missgrey @ 361

Had your comment been directed at someone other than a participant in this thread, it may well have passed.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 11:11 pm 363
In response to TheLurkingMod @ 362

Uh huh. Just keep telling yourself that. This is lazy moderating. Mongoose could have done it better.

*SHAME*


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 11:21 pm 364
In response to zaph @ 360

“McMillen recalls. “They had the time of their lives,”

Did I miss something?


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 11:25 pm 365
In response to missgrey @ 361

“When you randomly delete profanities, but leave offensive ideas”

So it’s ok to swear at people but you can’t show the facts or opposing ideas?


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 11:28 pm 366
In response to john789 @ 365

For one time only this evening, you and I are in complete agreement.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 11:30 pm 367

OK sweetie. Let’s talk.

Profanity: short-lived, mildly offensive moment.

Facts or opposing ideas: worthy of discussion.

Once again, and with the permission of the mod, you are twisting the story.

The mod deleted profanities, but allowed offensive comments.
Now you complain that we are swearing.

WHAT


zaph | Friday April 9, 2010 11:33 pm 368
In response to john789 @ 364

“McMillen recalls. “They had the time of their lives,”

Did I miss something?

You said @ 354:

She even said the other [disabled] students had the time of their lives.

You didn‘t miss a thing.

Bigot.

Homophobe.

Troll.

Pwned.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 11:35 pm 369

MOD FAIL

I say this as a a mod.

Come on, Mod. You can rise up. Be a better person.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 11:37 pm 370

or, you know….not.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 11:39 pm 371
In response to missgrey @ 367

What offensive comments did I make? Show me.


missgrey | Friday April 9, 2010 11:48 pm 372

Um…Life style? Come one.

As the mod you can decide to cut or comment on problematic posts.

But instead, yoou go after basic profanity.

Like I said. Mongoose could take your job tomorrow.

Come on, step up. Allow some conversation.


newtonusr | Friday April 9, 2010 11:52 pm 373

Um, Mod – clean-up of Moderator-troll in aisles 361, 363, 367, etc.


TheLurkingMod | Friday April 9, 2010 11:53 pm 374
In response to newtonusr @ 373

This is free speech. Unless abuse is directed at a commenter, it stays.


john789 | Friday April 9, 2010 11:55 pm 375

Life style? that’s suppose to be offensive? OH PLEASE!


missgrey | Saturday April 10, 2010 12:11 am 376

Deeply Disappointed. Oh, the humanity, And all that.

Seriously. This entire exchange gives me approximately ZERO hope for the future.

Moderator FAIL.

Commenter FAIL.

Everybody FAIL.


Lisa Derrick | Saturday April 10, 2010 07:44 am 377

It seems pretty clear that the Evergreen “masquerade party” was just thrown for the kids by some parents, and the majority of students were told about it.

Was Constance? apparently not. Were the other students who showed up at the Country Club? Apparently not.


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 10:09 am 379

Has anyone from any of these shows or from the media try talking to the other students? It appears to be one-sided.


lioness | Saturday April 10, 2010 12:43 pm 380
In response to john789 @ 379

Had you bothered to read their posts, you would know that the media’s persistent attempts to talk to them is supposedly one of their major complaints.


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 02:15 pm 381
In response to lioness @ 380

I have not seen any attempt by the media to talk to the other students and I’ve been searching. If you have a link, please post it.


zaph | Saturday April 10, 2010 02:27 pm 382
In response to lioness @ 380

There‘s an interesting blog piece that looks at the way Fulton reacted to (a) Constance wanting to go to the prom and (b) Fulton‘s reaction when a harsh national spotlight fell on them.

I can‘t say that I agree with all that‘s in the referenced piece, but I think the description of why Fulton reacted the way it did is correct. Constance challenged a unquestioned groupthink atmosphere, both within her high school and beyond. When the groupthink veil was first pierced by the Federal Judge, panic ensued, and a lot of stupid choices were made. Now that Fulton is finding that a lot people are speaking up about how cruelly Constance was treated, rather than introspection, they‘re circling the wagons when they‘re not dissembling over the reasons for their hostility towards her. This is not the first time this happened of course. It‘s usually seen where communities deny their own racism — the story of Anna Rosmus getting people all riled up in Passau, Bavaria comes to mind, as does the story of the Tulia, Texas drug busts.

I don‘t want to generalize too much about Fulton, by the way. drew084 @ 318 did talk about hard it is for good people to go against an ugly, but popular tide. He‘s right. It is hard. But for a good person to do nothing when the right thing is obvious has a cost to it, especially over something that can‘t be swept under the rug. I‘m guessing that there are a lot of people in Fulton who are feeling ashamed right now, but lack the cojones to speak up when there are so many that are still defiantly clueless. This makes Constance McMillen‘s courage all the more impressive.


lioness | Saturday April 10, 2010 02:33 pm 383

Read up-post. The students have been talking about the media “bothering” them here. If they choose to boycott the media, that’s their decision.


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 03:32 pm 384
In response to lioness @ 383

The students have been posting online what really happened, no one seems to be listening. I’d like to see the news media go down there with a reporter to cover both sides.


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 04:28 pm 385
In response to zaph @ 382

courage? for what? Calling the ACLU? The only one’s taking a beating for this have been the students, who wanted to be left alone to celebrate. Constance McMillen got what she wanted, a prom to take her date and wear a tuxs. She wasn’t denied anything. If the other students had a party, it was made clear it was private. It did not take any courage on Constance part, she wanted the attention and she got it.


radialskid | Saturday April 10, 2010 05:43 pm 386
In response to MollyNYC @ 195

“Get out of Itawamba County. Come out to one of the coasts, preferably a big city. (Portland’s nice.) With all due respect to your parents, if they encouraged this rather sordid project, you might want to rub elbows with people who have kinder values.”

Kinder values…like thinking you don’t matter if you’re from a rural area? This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone wants to live in some damn city on one of the coasts. And I mean no offense to those who DO pursue that life.

I’m from a town in Mississippi not far south of Fulton, like Candice, grew up in an atmosphere of intolerance (in my case, for being an atheist). I often longed to move to some glamorous city somewhere and pursue an affluent, self-indulgent metropolitan lifestyle, where everyone was erudite, introspective, and tolerant of all others.

It wasn’t until I graduated and started traveling that I realized not only that such a place doesn’t exist, but that I positively HATE cities in general. I grew too accustomed to the finer points of rural life, and it’s to that life I eventually – and happily – returned.

I’ve since learned that places like this will not move forward socially until the smart people STOP LEAVING and actually work to improve conditions here. Building a better tomorrow, instead of blindly going through the motions of thinking some framed college degree, a family with children, and a six-figure salary are the only important things in life.


milowent | Saturday April 10, 2010 06:15 pm 387

thought: one thing that is consistent in IAHS student comments (and john789 above), but which really makes no sense, is that the 1st “private” prom was cancelled after Constance allegedly tried to buy a ticket too late (one hour late per USAToday). Why didn’t they just give her a ticket? Their CLAIM is that Constance threatened to sue, but why is not really clear. If it was a private prom and she tried to buy it too late, she’d have no case.

I believe the parents cancelled the 1st private prom because they did not want constance to attend with a same-sex date and wearing a tux. That’s why they feared being sued, because the judge had been told Constance could go to this prom. The parents, like the school board previously, blamed uppity Constance again for the cancellation.

AND THAT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT. The truth: Lori Byrd (quoted in USAToday about the cancellation), and other parents who called Constance a “bitch” on facebook, are to blame for ruining forever the reputation of Fulton, Miss.

Nice job “parents”!


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 08:39 pm 388
In response to milowent @ 387

The question to ask is “Why did Constance wait until it was too late to buy a ticket?”. She had all week and was told over and over about the deadline. Try buying something that was on sale, when the sale is over.
The parents who put said they would put on the prom AFTER the school prom was cancelled, had second thoughts. They were not legally bound to have the prom, so they gave it back to the school. The school did have the prom. The other students boycotted it, that was their right.


culuriel | Saturday April 10, 2010 08:47 pm 389
In response to softballgirl10 @ 57

This is just ridiculous. Any student who stands up for equal rights at your school will always be accused of just seeking attention. I’ve seen instances of such pettiness in middle-schoolers, but time, or at least decent parenting, usually erodes it. I guess in Itawamba Country, any type of mistreatment is excused if it’s against someone who decided to stand up for her rights. I’m just sorry to hear that your parents didn’t ground you for being so pathetic and mean-spirited. Mine certainly would have.


culuriel | Saturday April 10, 2010 08:50 pm 390
In response to john789 @ 385

Dear John, the “beating” you’ve gotten is the sermon your parents should have given you on what kind of maturity is expected of people who are now adults. Perhaps you should try listening.


abcam | Saturday April 10, 2010 10:18 pm 391

This kind of stuff is standard in rural Mississippi schools. However, I’m not sure most schools are dumb enough to print the rule on the flyer. Usually, prohibition of same gender couples at prom is an unwritten rule.
Larger school districts such as Horn Lake High School and Southaven don’t have these problems because they are a suburb of Memphis, TN and naturally have a more diverse student body.
I graduated from a rural high school close to Fulton in 2003. I’ve read many of the posts in this forum and laugh every time someone threatens these students with being unable to attend college outside of the state. They had that disability before this event ever happened!
Life is different in Mississippi. Students and their parents (usually) do not know of the opportunities offered outside of the state. They are not trained to achieve academically. They are simply proded through a cattle gate to get a high school diploma, attend a community college, get married by 21, and have children. Going to Ole Miss or Mississippi State is an Achievement!
So please realize that your “insults” about IAHS students not being able to get into a good University are ridiculous. They never would have tried to begin with!


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 11:12 pm 392
In response to culuriel @ 389

The other students in her class have already said she was doing this to get attention and she’s been doing it all year long. Believe whatever you want, but I’ll believe them.


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 11:15 pm 393
In response to abcam @ 391

Talk about sterotyping people.


john789 | Saturday April 10, 2010 11:20 pm 394

From the milowent.blogspot site

IAHSparent
I agree with one thing on here for certain, this whole thing has gotten blown completely out of proportion. My daughter is a senior at IAHS and attended the dance/prom, whichever you would like to call it. It was not a secret, I discussed it with Constance myself. I don’t know her well, but my daughter has known and been friends with her since they were both in the third grade. I cannot speak for every student that attended the dance, but for my daughter and the students that I know, they didn’t go with the intention of excluding, bullying, or hurting anyone. They went because it was what they felt the most comfortable doing. The are all just kids, for heaven’s sake. Honestly, if any of you were in their shoes, at their age, don’t you think that you would have wanted to be where you knew your friends were going? The students never had a problem with same sex dates or the fact that Constance wanted her date to wear a tux. As a matter of fact, before the school board cancelled the original prom, the majority of the senior class signed a petition that Constance started stating that they didn’t have a problem with any of what she was asking. My daughter’s signature was on that petition. The school board chose to ignore what the students wanted and follow through with what THEY wanted instead. All the students wanted was a PROM, from day one. By the time they actually had something planned, all they wanted was a peaceful night, to celebrate their senior year. I don’t think that was too much to ask….

http://milowent.blogspot.com/2010/04/itawamba-private-prom-was-continuation.html


steven | Sunday April 11, 2010 12:25 am 395

Libertarian? I think not.

Don’t confuse libertarian with conservative, especially not conservative religious extremists.

-Libertarian for Constance.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 12:31 am 396
In response to steven @ 395

You’re right I’m NOT a Libertarian and by the way I’m NOT a conservative religious extremists. I’m an Independent.


PearlyWerly | Sunday April 11, 2010 04:55 am 397

Her name is CONSTANCE. Why do some people insist on calling her Candice or Candace? Is it because all three end with a “ce”?

Anyway, the people in that area have to understand now that this situation is no longer about how she demanded attention by declaring that she was going to bring her girlfriend and wear a tux to prom, but rather the fact that they all participated in discrimination against her and some of her fellow students.

Some say the students are still young, they’re still children. But the fact remains is that they are coming of age, growing into young adults. They should be thinking for themselves or at least begin to, and determining for themselves what is right and downright outrageous, but instead they “flexed the muscle of the majority”, and are led like cows to the slaughter, with their parents and educators at the lead.

They also need to stop picking and choosing which part of the bible to take and beat other people down with. Hypocrites, really… quoting the bible saying that homosexuality is wrong, when some of themselves have premarital sex that result in children out of wedlock. Didn’t the bible have something to say about that, too? But no, one of their reasonings was that, “everybody’s doing it anyway.”

So much for believing that “children are our future”.

WHERE ARE YOU NOW, WHITNEY HOUSTON!? Oh that’s right. Crack’d.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 08:58 am 398
In response to PearlyWerly @ 397

The students had a right to a PRIVATE prom. The fact is, you don’t like the majority flexing its muscle in ways you don’t agree with, even if it’s their legal right.


culuriel | Sunday April 11, 2010 09:24 am 399
In response to john789 @ 394

The best way to have denied Constance any attention would have been to comply with her perfectly reasonable request to bring her own girlfriend and wear a tuxedo. Instead, the school administration decided to act as if the sky would fall if Constance actually publicly appeared as a lesbian. The school brought this fight on in the first place, and the kids decided to side with a mean-spirited school administration. They’re getting all the condemnation they should have received from their parents.


culuriel | Sunday April 11, 2010 09:25 am 400
In response to john789 @ 394

You could have had a perfectly peaceful evening with Constance. She doesn’t seem to have created any disturbance at the prom she went to. It was the school that decided to refuse her original request. I suppose anyone who stands up for their rights against the majority has some nerve, right?


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 09:41 am 401
In response to culuriel @ 399

So there shouldn’t any rules or limits for the prom or school events.
One of the rules was girls wear a dress, boys wear a tux. What’s so wrong with that? It sets a standard.
The school did not start this, she did. She personally did not like the rules and wanted them changed. Do you see any of the other students fighting to change them? She was the ONLY one, for her it was getting attention and she got it.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 09:42 am 402
In response to culuriel @ 400

So anytime your kids argue with you about your rules will you give in? Who sets the rules in your house, you or your kids?


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 09:47 am 403

By the way, if you don’t agree with the rule about wearing a tuxs, tell your boss from now on you’re wearing shorts, t-shirt and sandals to work from now on. Lets see how far that goes.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 10:31 am 404
In response to john789 @ 398

The students had a right to a PRIVATE prom. The fact is, you don’t like the majority flexing its muscle in ways you don’t agree with, even if it’s their legal right.

For once we can agree. Many people don‘t like others –even a majority somewhere– flexing its muscle in legal, but nevertheless homophobic and bigoted ways.

People have a right to be bigoted in their "private" affairs. Others have the right to call them on their bigotry. You continually elide the latter point, but not because you‘re stupid. The only possible response would be to justify homophobia — in other words, people not only have the right to be homophobes, they‘re correct in being homophobes. And that‘s an argument you can‘t win in a public forum. Not anymore.


Lisa Derrick | Sunday April 11, 2010 10:42 am 405
In response to john789 @ 394

The prom Constance attended, sponsored by the school had no media attention, and had everyone just shown up, the story would have been a non-story.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:01 am 406
In response to zaph @ 404

Where do you get the idea it was “homophobic and bigoted”? Did the students call her any names? Did they attack her? Did they try and stop her from going to the prom?


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:03 am 407
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 405

No, the media would have made a big deal out of it. It was already an “entertainment” headline.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:07 am 408
In response to john789 @ 406

Instead of addressing the general principle I put forward, namely that people have a right to call out others on their bigotry, you bring it back to this specific situation and haggle over details that have already been hashed over.

You‘re so obvious.


sugarspun | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:36 am 409
In response to john789 @ 388

“The parents who put said they would put on the prom AFTER the school prom was cancelled, had second thoughts. They were not legally bound to have the prom, so they gave it back to the school.”

They appear to have kept the decorations that were intended for the original prom.

What’s interesting about this situation is the legal implication of attempting to follow the letter of the law while dodging its spirit. The judge required there to be a prom for all students which Constance was permitted to attend, and technically the school provided one. However, the decorations from the prom were put up in another location, and all the students bar the undesirable ones were informed of and invited to the other locations. The “we boycotted” claim might have worked if the internet hadn’t been filled with IAHS students and parents talking about “prom” and Constance, and if the prom decorations weren’t prominent in the images from the “private party”, and if the whole tone of the responses from Itawamba wasn’t an ugly display of clear intent to make a mockery of the court judgement.

Everyone has a right to be bigoted. They do not have the right to discriminate based on that bigotry, and they do not have the right to have that bigotry go unchallenged.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:40 am 410
In response to zaph @ 408

What bigotry? Did they put her down for being a lesbian? What hateful speech did they use against her?


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:46 am 411
In response to sugarspun @ 409

“They appear to have kept the decorations that were intended for the original prom.”

Depends on who they belonged to. Did the school buy them? Did the school own them? How do you know they were intended for the original prom? They could have been done at any time.

They could have called their dance anything they wanted, a prom, a dance, it doesn’t matter, it was PRIVATE. You can boycott any thing you want to, it does not make you a bigot. Some people just like to throw around words like “bigot” and “homopobic”.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 12:11 pm 412
In response to john789 @ 410

What bigotry?

The bigotry of keeping a lesbian out of prom simply because she‘s a lesbian, even if it‘s a private prom, which is their right to do. Private homophobic bigotry is still bigotry.

You refuse to concede that others have a right to call them on it, either in this specific case, or in general.

You want it both ways. You hop and down like Rumpelstiltskin saying it‘s ok to discriminate against Constance in a "private" function, while simultaneously arguing that nobody‘s discriminated against her.

Your bad faith is so obvious.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 01:03 pm 413
In response to zaph @ 412

What you’re asking for is a Constance dictatorship. When she sues to take her date to the prom and wear a tuxs she wins and gets what she wants. But that’s not enought for you. If the other students boycott the prom, you call them bigots. Yet there’s not even hint of students criticizing her for being a lesbian, all the time she was at the school.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 01:44 pm 414
In response to john789 @ 413

Oh, bullshit! I‘m composting your posts to fertilize my garden.

You‘re still playing it both ways: it‘s ok to discriminate against Constance in a "private" function, while arguing that nobody (students or parents or administrators or anybody else) discriminated against her for being a lesbian.

I‘ve never broad-brushed all the kids at the Evergreen prom as dyed-in-the-wool bigots, although the ones who weren‘t bigots sold a piece of the integrity to go to a discriminatory function.

The very first post on the "Constance quit yer cryin" section of Facebook calls Constance "a damn lesbo."

And here‘s a juicy nugget from the Letters to the Editor in Fulton‘s local paper:

[...]
Since this controversy began, there has been an outcry of support for the homosexual cause. Let us say that there are those of us who support the cause of Christ. Since Ms. McMillen chose to reference the Bible in support of her lifestyle choice, we felt compelled to set the record straight. Please be clear. This lifestyle is a choice. No one is “born that way.” [...assorted Bible references...] We believe that homosexuality is wrong, a perversion, and detrimental to society in general. Several years ago, this behavior was virtually unheard of and not all accepted by the vast majority. Now it is heralded as an alternate lifestyle. Sexual immorality of any kind should not be on public display in any arena and especially not in the school system.
[...]
Concerned about our children,
Membership of Bethany Baptist Church
Oakland Community
Fulton

In other words, discriminate against Constance in school activities because she‘s gay and out of the closet.

Facebook, blog comments, and even the local paper are littered with examples of the local homophobia towards Constance. You‘re asking for a bigot dictatorship, and can‘t make a good faith argument for it.


culuriel | Sunday April 11, 2010 01:58 pm 415
In response to john789 @ 402

That is the stupidest standard I’ve ever seen- “Follow the rules because we say so”. If the school couldn’t give an actual reason why no cross-dressing was allowed then there is no reason to disallow it, UNLESS, the problem is that you don’t want to GASP see any open gays/lesbians. It was ridiculous to not allow a simple request that didn’t hurt anyone when it was actually done at the real prom. Bad form, and no one from this town should expect any praise from the outside world.


culuriel | Sunday April 11, 2010 02:03 pm 416
In response to softballgirl10 @ 72

Yeah, that lesbian b*tch should have just accepted 2nd-class status! She never should have got so uppity as to think she had a right to be an open lesbian at the prom!


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 02:21 pm 417
In response to culuriel @ 415

So you want a world without rules? Try that where you work, tell them you can work any hours you want. Management will tell you “Follow the rules because we say so or find another job”.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 02:23 pm 418
In response to zaph @ 414

I’m not playing it both ways, I’m givng both sides what the want. She has a right to a prom, the students have a right to a private party. You’re the one trying to have things your way and ONLY your way.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 02:53 pm 419
In response to john789 @ 418

I’m not playing it both ways, I’m givng both sides what the want. I’m givng both sides what the want. She has a right to a prom, the students have a right to a private party. You’re the one trying to have things your way and ONLY your way.

Oh, I wouldn‘t try to stop a private, discriminatory prom. I‘m just calling them on it. Not that different from a private school getting called on for discriminating against black people.

Nice try John, but FAIL. No biscuit for you.


lioness | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:07 pm 420
In response to john789 @ 393

Abcam is telling the truth. I also live near Fulton and have seen the same problem. Students are indoctrinated that graduating from a junior college is all they really need, and that the only career they should train for is Health Services. They are often not told of other options, and the people who do discuss other options with them are sometimes censured for “confusing” students.

Itawamba Community College offers free tuition to any graduate of IAHS. All these students have to do is not get expelled and they’ve got a free college degree waiting for them. They have little incentive to try for more.


lioness | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:09 pm 421
In response to john789 @ 417

Now hold it, John. Earlier you were complaining that Constance should have ignored (read: broken) the rule and brought her date anyway. Now you’re complaining that there was too much rule-breaking going down. Which way do you want it? You can’t have both.


PearlyWerly | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:15 pm 422
In response to john789 @ 398

Y’know… you should probably read what the other students have said in regards to this entire tirade. Like begleg10 (who reluctantly and scathingly apologised for her post) and softballgirl10, and on another thread, studentofiahs.

studentofiahs made a statement that the disabled students in their school are “the most popular students at our school [and we] love them to death” and it confuses me a little, considering a response one of the other classmates, softballgirl10, posted on an earlier entry, “…i don’t understand the disabled kids stuff, we don’t even talk to them, so stop judging. they could have come to our prom if they wanted to.”

I don’t know… but I couldn’t love someone to death and not talk to them, even if it’s one of those little girly crush. Nor could I not have invited them either.

That aside, part of me agrees with the students of IAHS. I guess Prom is a big thing for a bunch of little teenagers, probably the one “milestone” before heading out into what they think is the “Real World” (and I think most of us know what that’s really like, eh?).

Still, being a survivor of high-school bullying myself, this all seems eerily familiar.

Anyway, I’m surprised no one has brought up the movie, “Saved!” yet.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:20 pm 423
In response to lioness @ 421

Where did I say that? What exactly did I say? I believe I was talking about what the students said. Some of the students said if she had just shown up with her date, no one would have said anything. If she wore a tuxs, they would not allow her in.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:23 pm 424
In response to zaph @ 419

You’re calling them “bigots” for having a PRIVATE party. Having a PRIVATE party, does not make you a bigot. Unless you think ANYONE having a PRIVATE party is a “bigot”.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:24 pm 425
In response to PearlyWerly @ 422

Anyway, I’m surprised no one has brought up the movie, “Saved!” yet.

I remember that movie!

"I am FILLED with Rachel Maddow‘s love!"

Wait … am I remembering it right?


culuriel | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:32 pm 426
In response to john789 @ 417

What I would like, and I don’t think I’m alone in this, is rules that make sense. School rules, especially at prom, are primarily for the safety of students and staff. This rule, as found by a judge, violated anti-discrimination laws and existed for the purpose of keeping lesbians and gays from being open about their sexuality. You see, it was really the school that decided to bend the rules, in this case anti-discrimination laws that we have for a reason (namely, that discrimination by minorities is prevalent). When the school got called on their law-breaking, they decided to be petty and cancel the prom. When the prom was reinstated, the students decided to be petty and sore losers on their own. Protected by law, but condemnable by public opinion. Because that’s what the school administrators, students and parents are really mad about- they violated anti-discrimination laws (which exist to protect our rights), and when Constance called them on it, they lost in court. These students, parents, and administrators are pathetic sore losers and I’m sorry to see it. I would have thought the grown ups would have insisted that 17-18 years start acting like adults.


culuriel | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:33 pm 427
In response to culuriel @ 426

Oops. Should have read “Discrimination by majorities is prevalent.” Which is what was really on display in MS.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 03:55 pm 428
In response to john789 @ 424

You’re calling them “bigots” for having a PRIVATE party. Having a PRIVATE party, does not make you a bigot. Unless you think ANYONE having a PRIVATE party is a “bigot”.

Stop it, John. You‘re not really that obtuse.

Or are you?


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 04:18 pm 429
In response to zaph @ 428

You meant this comment you made?

“Oh, I wouldn‘t try to stop a private, discriminatory prom. I‘m just calling them on it. Not that different from a private school getting called on for discriminating against black people.”

In ANY private prom you can invite or not invite anyone you want. You do have a legal right to discriminate who you want at the party.
About the private schools:
Q. Do federal anti-discrimination laws extend to private schools?

A. If a school is private, it is not covered by Title IV. If, however, it received federal funds, it is subject to the federal statutes prohibiting discrimination by federal fund recipients: Title VI, Title IX, Section 504. Private schools are also covered by Title III of the ADA.

So unless a PRIVATE school recieve FEDERAL funds, it can. This has NOTHING to do with someone having a PRIVATE party.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 04:28 pm 430

By the way, parts of the south still have PRIVATE segregated proms.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/magazine/24prom-t.html

I am for PRIVATE rights.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 04:33 pm 431
In response to john789 @ 429

No, you‘re not obtuse. You‘re just obfuscatory. Bad faith. No donut.

A private prom be can discriminatory if they want. They‘re not immune from being criticized for it though.

That‘s all.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 04:42 pm 432
In response to zaph @ 431

You can criticize all you want, it’s freedom of speech. But they are not “bigots” for having a private prom.


PearlyWerly | Sunday April 11, 2010 04:44 pm 433
In response to john789 @ 432

I believe they’re just bigots for being discriminatory, private or not.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 05:06 pm 434
In response to john789 @ 432

You can criticize all you want, it’s freedom of speech.

Thanks for the validation.

(He gets it! He gets it! People in Fulton can be homophobic douchenozzles if they want to. I get to call them homophobic douchenozzles when they‘re acting like homophobic douchenozzles. Yippeeee!)

But they are not “bigots” for having a private prom.

They are if they do it to keep out gay kids.

Sorta like those segregated proms in the NYT story you linked to. White kid, white prom. Black kid, black prom. The white kids can go to the black prom if they want to, but the black kids are ushered out of the white prom.

Naw, not a bit of bigotry there.

(That last sentence is meant to be ironic. I don‘t want the racist douchenozzles that are reading to misunderstand me.)


steinman77 | Sunday April 11, 2010 05:07 pm 435

You can criticize all you want, it’s freedom of speech. But they are not “bigots” for having a private prom.

Of course not. They are bigots for having a private prom for the specific purpose of excluding other students.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 05:34 pm 436
In response to zaph @ 434

This is what you don’t get, not one student has said she was excluded for being gay. If anything she was excluded for being annoying. They’ve said repeatly, they wanted a private prom to be left ALONE. So what don’t you understand?


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 05:36 pm 437
In response to steinman77 @ 435

The purpose of a PRIVATE party is meant to exclude others…that’s why it’s PRIVATE.
According to your point of view, ANYONE who has a private party is a bigot.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 05:40 pm 438
In response to PearlyWerly @ 433

Everyone discriminates. Do you allow just anyone into your house? Can anyone drive your car? If you have a private party, can ANYONE come?
I discriminate where I shop, who my friends are, where I bank….


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 05:54 pm 439
In response to john789 @ 436

John. Stop. It‘s over. You‘ve been pwned, and now you‘re reduced to repeating ad nauseam your bullshit arguments and counter-examples. Find something else to do. Clean your room. Come upstairs from the basement because Mom has your supper ready. Go to the 7-11 and get a slurpee. You‘ll feel better. But for the sake of whatever neurons you might have left, stop.


lioness | Sunday April 11, 2010 05:59 pm 440

John, you have seen the anti-lesbian remarks the children posted themselves on their Facebook pages. You can’t look at those and then say they did not discriminate against her for being a lesbian.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 06:21 pm 441
In response to lioness @ 440

Show me a post of ANY student from the school being anti-gay. Show me a post from the students where they said she was not invited because she’s gay.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 06:22 pm 442
In response to zaph @ 439

I wouldn’t have to repeat myself if you would listen. :)


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 06:24 pm 443
In response to john789 @ 442

John, The Dairy Queen is reaching Her hand out to you. Go to Her!


steinman77 | Sunday April 11, 2010 07:39 pm 444
In response to john789 @ 437

Attention, stupid person: this is a written medium. People can go back in the thread and see that you originally described the event as a private prom. People invite who they will to a private party, but all students in good standing – be they uppity dykes or special-needs students – have the right to attend the prom. And Constance McMillen is in good standing – the rule that would have prevented her from attending the prom was ruled illegal.

Your wordplay will not help you here.


steinman77 | Sunday April 11, 2010 07:41 pm 445
In response to john789 @ 442

Do you really think that your brain-sick dribblings would be convincing if we’d only just listen to you?

We understand what you’re saying. You’re wrong. Walk away.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 08:29 pm 446
In response to steinman77 @ 444

What is it that you don’t understand about the term “private prom”? If it’s private, it means not everyone is invited. That’s why it’s called a “PRIVATE PROM” or “PRIVATE DANCE”.

Since all you can do it throw insults, you lost the discussion.


steinman77 | Sunday April 11, 2010 09:22 pm 447
In response to john789 @ 446

“Private prom” is an oxymoron. If it’s the Prom, it’s for all students in good standing. The fact that they held a “private party” to avoid attending the prom that the uppity dyke and the special-needs students were allowed to attend makes them bigots. They may have every legal right to hold such a party – we haven’t heard from the judge yet – and they certainly have every legal right to be bigots (though not to enforce their bigotry as school rules). For our part, we have every right to point out the undeniable fact that they are bigots – a fact that isn’t changed by whatever desperate word-games and special pleading you may employ.

I’m glad that you support privacy rights so strongly, though. If private universities and privately-owned businesses should choose to exclude these people based on their cruel, dishonest behavior, you’ll support their right to do so?

BTW, I think it says something that your only real interest in this conversation is winning. Purest original strain of troll.


PearlyWerly | Sunday April 11, 2010 09:48 pm 448
In response to john789 @ 438

Discrimination =/= Preference.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 10:54 pm 449
In response to PearlyWerly @ 448

Yes, and in many cases it’s legal. Not all discrimination is bad.


john789 | Sunday April 11, 2010 10:57 pm 450
In response to steinman77 @ 447

Private business can exclude anyone they want. They just don’t have to tell you why.


zaph | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:07 pm 451
In response to john789 @ 450

Private business can exclude anyone they want. They just don’t have to tell you why.

What. A. Weasel.

Thank you, and good night.


avast2006 | Sunday April 11, 2010 11:24 pm 452
In response to john789 @ 449

When it is obvious what they are up to, they can expect to be called on it. You aren’t fooling anyone.


avast2006 | Monday April 12, 2010 12:08 am 453
In response to fentdog @ 247

“I don’t much about the school run prom. I do know that everyone went to Evergreen because more work was put into it.”

“More work,” eh fentdog? Well, that’s a relief. For a bit there, I was afraid you were going to go for the “separate but equal” defense. I’m glad to see we won’t be hearing any of that tactic from you.

Now, let’s look a little more closely at that idea: “more work was put into it.”

What happens when two separate Prom events are arranged for the same student body? Unless exquisite care is taken to coordinate the planning between the two, one is necessarily going to be a bigger, fancier event, with “more work…put into it.” That means that necessarily, some students are going to find themselves at a lesser event. No school official that claims to care about the welfare of all students would countenance such an outcome, where some portion of the student body gets, by definition, the short end of the stick.

What is more, the amount of extra resources required to stage the second event would be more wisely spent by adding it to the first one and inviting everyone. Instead of a great party for some and a not-so-great party for some others, you get a fantastic party for all. See how that works?

Of course, in this case, your “more work was put into it” gets a little more sinister than the simple inevitable difference in effort, when you look into it. What was the theme of the original, official Prom? According to the rules page, the theme was “Masquerade.” What were the decorations for the new dance? Enormous…masques. (Pictures are all over the internet.)

Obviously, the reason that “more work was put into it” was because the resources intended for the original, official event had been pillaged and sent to the private event. That’s why Constance’s Prom was separate, all right, but certainly not equal.

No, there is only one reason for staging two separate events for the same group of kids: to make sure that the undesirable ones are kept away from the main event. What’s the word for that? Oh yeah: “segregated.” I hear you Mississippians are quite familiar with the term.

I’m willing to entertain the notion that most of the kids simply wanted to go where the party was going to be the best. Problem is, the parents and administrators that engineered this boondoggle did a bad, bigoted thing, and you kids went along with it; and now you all have been indelibly associated with an act of bigotry. “Itawamba Agricultural High School Class of 2010″ is now a worldwide mark of shame. Your futures are now definitely darkened, thanks to the idiotic actions of some stupid people at the head of your organization. If I were you, I would stop making excuses for what they did, and start holding them accountable for it.


newtonusr | Monday April 12, 2010 12:12 am 454
In response to avast2006 @ 453

What’s the word for that? Oh yeah: “segregated.” I hear you Mississippians are quite familiar with the term.

I agree that there’s a lot of ugly in what the students and parents and teachers and administrators did.
But this is over the line. There are any number of places, states, cities all over this country where this could have happened. And you know them all. Some are in California. Have you ever been to Riverside County?

Let’s be fair about this.


avast2006 | Monday April 12, 2010 12:42 am 455

Show me one and I’ll condemn it. Until then, try to stay on topic.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 12:43 am 456
In response to zaph @ 451

I guess you don’t live in the real world.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 12:46 am 457
In response to newtonusr @ 454

What the students, parents, teachers and administrators did was not over the line. Constance got her prom, the students had a private dance, it’s over. Be happy :)


newtonusr | Monday April 12, 2010 12:51 am 458
In response to john789 @ 457

Make no mistake – I am not standing up for your views on this. I am simply saying that referring to Mississippi that way is nearly as closed-minded as some folks there were about Constance.


newtonusr | Monday April 12, 2010 01:13 am 459
In response to john789 @ 457

What you describe as ‘private’ is a crime in matters other than a high school prom.

A so-called ‘private’ apartment would be fine, if only those brown people, or those other-faithed people, or those gay people, or them foreigners with their peculiar talk, didn’t apply for it.

The so-called ‘private’ golf course, the ‘private’ beach, the ‘private’ grocery store… the ‘private’ drinking fountain.

These are disgraceful, and illegal by federal law, and for a reason. What this high school did, while probably not illegal by statute, will most likely be found contrary in letter and spirit to the edict of a federal judge.

So what that makes the actions of these particular people in Mississippi who perpetuated this – is just disgraceful.


Lisa Derrick | Monday April 12, 2010 02:35 am 460
In response to newtonusr @ 454

I concur. Segregation for any number of reasons occurs throughout the world, in American, in every state.


avast2006 | Monday April 12, 2010 03:53 am 461
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 460

“I concur. Segregation for any number of reasons occurs throughout the world, in American, in every state.”

And what, that somehow minimizes Mississippi’s history of it?

There’s another school in Mississippi that had its first racially integrated prom only in 2008.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 07:43 am 462
In response to avast2006 @ 461

As long as the proms are private, it’s legal. I don’t see any black groups sueing to stop them.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 07:44 am 463
In response to newtonusr @ 459

I suggest if you don’t like private groups or private property, you move to Cuba, China or Russia.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 07:58 am 464

Another side affect of this, Constance has her name in the news over this. Good luck in finding a job in that area. Companies do not like hiring people who make the news filing lawsuits.


zaph | Monday April 12, 2010 08:46 am 465
In response to john789 @ 463

john sez:

As long as the proms are private, it’s legal. I don’t see any black groups sueing to stop them.

and

I suggest if you don’t like private groups or private property, you move to Cuba, China or Russia.

The deliberate distortion he‘s making is to equate criticism of a behavior as prevention of a behavior. But then again, it‘s always part of a troll‘s toolkit to distort an opponent‘s position. There‘s no good faith debate to be had from him, so might as well have fun:

John, there‘s ready employment for English-speaking spin doktors in Cuba, China and Russia. You‘ll need a passport and a change of underwear.


gdhjasun | Monday April 12, 2010 09:21 am 466
In response to john789 @ 464

Of course no student came to her defense. Even the gay students from that school can see what happens when a person who’s “different” stands up for themselves. You think the gay guys who went to the secret party were happy to not be allowed to dance with their boyfriends? they were just happy that it wasn’t them being singled out for special ridicule and dirty pranks.

Hey, when I was in high school I would have done anything to NOT be the one that was so viciously excluded from everything and singled out for sport.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 10:16 am 467
In response to zaph @ 465

I don’t need to go to Cuba to make money, making it right here in the stock market, in the good old U.S.A. GOD bless America :)


peepe | Monday April 12, 2010 10:21 am 468
In response to john789 @ 462

I suppose your next argument is going to be that the people holding segregated proms aren’t bigots, and that they’re not excluding nonwhite students because they’re not white, but because they’re all really annoying?

Seriously, we get your argument that it’s *legal*. That doesn’t mean it’s not bigoted, and that people doing these things should be free of criticism. You have the freedom to do a great many things that may or may not be ethical, but freedom from criticism for doing them is not anyone’s guaranteed right.


pinko | Monday April 12, 2010 11:45 am 469

Second Chance prom anyone…
A Green Day, Lance Bass, Cat Cora, AHA, and tonic.com sponsored event.
May 8th, 2010, Tupelo, Mississippi.
A chance for all the kids to come together and put an end to all this nastiness. No one “backed into a corner by the ACLU”, No dirty tricks or decoys. Lets see who goes and who boycotts shall we?
But it seems like some things never change as the associated press is trying to characterize this as “open to everyone but geared toward gay students.” as of this writing I have seen no indication this statement is factual at all.
Anyway here is your second chance all you nasty conniving little bigots, you have gone a long way down the unpleasant road that has so far tarnished your repetitions but it seems you are being offered a second chance here, go to the second chance prom, you may still be able to redeem yourselves and be able to look back at a painful lesson learned, and at least know that in the end your better self rose from the stinking muck you were lead into by a vile brand of group think.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 11:58 am 470
In response to pinko @ 469

So anyone who decides NOT to go is a bigot? Very funny.


john789 | Monday April 12, 2010 12:03 pm 471
In response to pinko @ 469

By the way, it is a gay prom by their own admission.

Lance Bass, Green Day, Cat Cora, and Tonic.com are coming together with the American Humanist Association to throw a prom in Mississippi open to everyone but geared toward LGBT youth

http://www.towleroad.com/2010/04/lance-bass-green-day-cat-cora-to-host-gay-prom-in-mississippi.html


pinko | Monday April 12, 2010 12:38 pm 472

Umm point of fact for those interested, that is not, as John789 claimed, by their own admission at all. towleroad.com is not sponsoring the event and was not quoting anyone when they made that statement on their website. The above statement is in fact something reported by some random website. It may be true or it may be false, but it is certainly not “by their own admission”.


PearlyWerly | Monday April 12, 2010 12:49 pm 473

There needs to be a better “does not equal to” symbol.

I don’t think John understands that this is no longer about the prom per se, but about discrimination and bullying.


pinko | Monday April 12, 2010 12:54 pm 474

And I quote from an AHA’s website…”We’ve very pleased to be able to support and promote LGBT equality alongside other sponsors,” said Roy Speckhardt, executive director of the American Humanist Association. “We’re proud to be standing on the side of love and acceptance instead of fear and prejudice, and we hope that the event will bring appreciation of the diversity within our society and encourage others to embrace it as a positive value that can continue to forge progress for all Americans.”
“I hope this Second Chance Prom will be an opportunity to get beyond recent negativity and provide a celebration that shows the benefits of an inclusive outlook,” said Speckhardt.
Promoting civil rights and LGBT equality does not equal gay prom.


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