Late Night: Democrats More Likely to Believe in Ghosts, Past Lives, Mediums

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A new study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life reveals that Democrats are more likely than Republicans to have experienced communication with the dead, visited fortune tellers, or seen ghosts. The study, “Many Americans Mix Multiple Faiths,” discovered that

large numbers of Americans engage in multiple religious practices, mixing elements of diverse traditions. Many say they attend worship services of more than one faith or denomination — even when they are not traveling or going to special events like weddings and funerals. Many also blend Christianity with Eastern or New Age beliefs such as reincarnation, astrology and the presence of spiritual energy in physical objects. And sizeable minorities of all major U.S. religious groups say they have experienced supernatural phenomena, such as being in touch with the dead or with ghosts.

It also revealed that Republicans are–depending on your own analysis–less inclined to believe outside the fundamentalist box/more traditionally Christian, and that Democrats are less restrained/more alternative in their religious thinking.

21 percent of Republicans report that they have been in touch with someone who is dead, while 36 percent of Democrats say they have done so. Eleven percent of Republicans say they have seen a ghost, while 21 percent of Democrats say so. And nine percent of Republicans say they have consulted a fortuneteller, while 22 percent of Democrats have.

When Pew asked respondents whether they have had a religious or mystical experience, 50 percent of Democrats said yes, as did 50 percent of Republican. But that’s pretty much where their the similarities ended. Over twice as many Democrats as Republicans believe in astrology and 15% of Republicans believe yoga is a spiritual practice versus 30% of Democrats survey who did. This could have far reaching results in upcoming elections where the language of faith and faith itself may come into play.

The study also reports:

Having been in touch with a dead person is more common among women than men. Women are also twice as likely to have consulted a fortuneteller or psychic. Blacks report more experience feeling in touch with the dead than whites or Hispanics. But they resemble whites and Hispanics on other items, such as encounters with a ghost or consulting a fortuneteller.

And I sense a crowd with pitchforks wearing Palin 2012 shirts outside my gate ready to burn my yoga mat and  Aleister Crowley books….

214 Responses to "Late Night: Democrats More Likely to Believe in Ghosts, Past Lives, Mediums"
Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:02 pm 1

So does that make Republican Scrooges?


Suzanne | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:03 pm 2

lisa!


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:03 pm 3

What does it say about those of us who embrace “none of the above”?


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:06 pm 4
In response to DrDick @ 3

this may have been a poll only of people who claim a belief system


zeroguardian03 | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:06 pm 5

This is a weird post. Are we going to make broad generalizations about the intelligence of the parties based on slight differences in these poll results? The numbers aren’t even that significant. Let’s stick to political theory and avoid bashing religious / spiritual beliefs.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:08 pm 6

those of us who embrace “none of the above”?

That’s what I’m wondering…although I have been told by people, whom I would trust with my life, that they have seen ghosts. It is a troubling dilemma.

‘Evenin’, all.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:09 pm 7
In response to zeroguardian03 @ 5

Haven’t seen or heard any hint of bashing anybody’s beliefs around here.


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:09 pm 8

A new study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life reveals that Democrats are more likely than Republicans to have experienced communication with the dead

Maybe Ghosts don’t like the undead?


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:10 pm 9

Religin fascinates me; I was the faith and culture editor for a national magazine that focused on religious history.

Were it not for religions, the world would not have the art music architecture, laws and politics we do today


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:10 pm 10

My superstition is better than urine…


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:10 pm 11

This is the Poll I like…! ;-)

Poll: More Want Obama To Stick To His Policies Than To Be Bipartisan


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:12 pm 12

And as far as ghosts, I believe in em, and Nancy Reagan believed in astrology…


Peterr | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:12 pm 13

And nine percent of Republicans say they have consulted a fortuneteller . . .

I assume that by “fortuneteller” the survey did not mean “financial guru who swears that we’ll see the DJIA at 30,000 by January 1, 2010″ or “a BushCo military strategist who swears that American troops would be greeted as liberators in Iraq.”

Those kinds of fortunetellers were consulted a great deal by Republicans in the last eight years.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:13 pm 14
In response to CTuttle @ 11

I concur. I’d be nice if he’d live up to his pre-Nov 4 promises


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:13 pm 15

It also revealed that Republicans are–depending on your own analysis–less inclined to believe outside the fundamentalist box/more traditionally Christian, and that Democrats are less restrained/more alternative in their religious thinking.

21 percent of Republicans report that they have been in touch with someone who is dead, while 36 percent of Democrats say they have done so. Eleven percent of Republicans say they have seen a ghost, while 21 percent of Democrats say so.

Last I checked all Christian religions had some informal belief in ghosts, as far as fortune telling goes the Bible is a bunch of fortune tellers/prophets telling the future.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:14 pm 16
In response to RonD @ 6

I have been told of encounters with witches who turn into owls, little people, 40 foot long horned serpents as big around as telephone poles, living sentient fires which can kill of trifled with, and much else. I have had friends who regularly spoke with the thunder, Father Peyote, and Jesus.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:15 pm 17
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 14

I have now given up all hope of that.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:16 pm 18
In response to DrDick @ 7

Haven’t seen or heard any hint of bashing anybody’s beliefs around here.

Especially, when we come from all walks…! I’m Baha’i to start with and we embrace most faiths…! ;-)


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:16 pm 19

Holidays bring out the religius and irreligious sides of people. Thanksgiving is all the agony of Xmas but without the presetns. Now at this time of year we have a number of celebrations, Hanukkah, Xmas, solstice/Yule, Kwaanza…

We’re having Fugly Gift Exhange–bring something to regift wrapped in brown paper. And my tree is a 6 ft tall succulent wiht tinsel. I am really doing it up this year, first time wiht a tree in this house, or my own home ever


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:17 pm 20
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 12

Oh well, if NANCY believed count me in.


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:17 pm 21

I sense a great disturbance in the farce(s).


georgewalton | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:17 pm 22

Over twice as many Democrats as Republicans believe in astrology

Come on, this is about class not paty affliation. A big chunk of the folks who call themselves Democrats are, instead, Reagan Democrats. Hell, these folks believe Sarah Palin would be an outstanding presient! They watch Glenn Beck for Christ sakes!!

If you want to investigate Democrats and the supernatural try probing the Democrats who actually believe the Democratic Party is the party of the people while the Republicans are the party of the fat cats on Wall Street.

No, no, I’m serious!!!


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:18 pm 23
In response to ratfood @ 20

Dare to keep Ronnie’s memory alive!


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:18 pm 24
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 15

For what it is worth, מָשִׁיחַ (mashiach), from which we get messiah, means a “prophet.”


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:18 pm 25

Mary Todd Lincoln held seances in the white house!


Sid58 | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:18 pm 26
In response to DrDick @ 17

Check out faith in reason:it works.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:18 pm 27
In response to DrDick @ 16

I too have had friends who had long conversations with Jesus and/ or Mescalito, but these people aren’t in that crowd.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:19 pm 28
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 23

Long live zombie Reagan!


Sid58 | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:21 pm 29
In response to CTuttle @ 18

Our Thanksgiving is a family affair (December is bad weather). Solstice gifts and turkey. No superstition.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:21 pm 30
In response to ratfood @ 28

All Republicans believe that they communicate with the spirit of RayGunz. They just argue over who is properly channeling it.


Hugh | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:22 pm 31

I for one have seen all kinds of weird and phantasmagoric creatures in my life, zombie banks, politicians without backbones, Republicans without brains, great sucking vampire squids, amazing vanishing public options, banksters that make Bonnie and Clyde look like pikers, backstabbing egomaniacs, paranoics with a thing for torture, lots of things that would make your blood freeze I’m telling you.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:22 pm 32
In response to RonD @ 27

Don’t know about yours, but my friends did it in church.


kyeo | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:22 pm 33

Hey, lots of Democrats still believe in the ghost of Obama’s credibility.


kyeo | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:23 pm 34
In response to DrDick @ 32

Your friends did it in church? That’s kind of hot.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:23 pm 35
In response to Hugh @ 31

There be monsters on the right.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:24 pm 36
In response to Hugh @ 31

Hail Cthulhu!


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:25 pm 37
In response to kyeo @ 34

Ummm, the ones I was referring to did peyote in church. I do know a few Wiccans, however, so they might have done the other as well.


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:25 pm 38

I used to know this guy who was convinced capitalism in the most prevalent form of black magic. After the corporate voodoo of 2009, I think he may have been correct.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:26 pm 39
In response to Hugh @ 31

…great sucking vampire squids…

Are you channeling Matt Taibbi now…? Put down that joint and the Rolling Stone mag and step away…! ;-)


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:26 pm 40
In response to DrDick @ 30

None of the Reagan worshipers have any clue what he actually did, which I suppose makes it like most religions. At least the ones based on some all powerful central character… Pogo, in my case.


EvilDrPuma | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:27 pm 41
In response to kyeo @ 33

I find them far more believable than the ones who think Obama’s credibility is still alive.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:27 pm 42
In response to DrDick @ 32

Pew-whee!


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:28 pm 43
In response to applepie @ 38

Voodoo economics, a late 80s phenom…along with “read my lips, new world order” (thanks, Bush the First for making that clear)


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:28 pm 44
In response to applepie @ 38

The belief in free markets is a prevalent superstition in our times.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:28 pm 45
In response to EvilDrPuma @ 41

rimshot

h/t PW


Blub | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:29 pm 46

rethugs don’t have believe in such things. They’re zombies and their leaders are vamps ;-)


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:29 pm 47
In response to ratfood @ 42

Actually sitting on the ground in a tipi.


Hugh | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:30 pm 48
In response to CTuttle @ 39

LOL. Who needs drugs when we have a government and political process like ours. Although I sometimes wish I was the one hallucinating, I really think they are the ones who are.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:30 pm 49

Here’s little holiday music from Kekal (warning: Norwegian black metal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khSvvHHV4Fg


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:30 pm 50

And I sense a crowd with pitchforks wearing Palin 2012 shirts outside my gate ready to burn my yoga mat and Aleister Crowley books….

L Ron Hubbard moved in with Jack Parsons, where they began the practice of the occult and sexual magick. Parsons’ mistress, Sara Northrup, left him for Hubbard and later became Hubbard’s second wife, even before Hubbard had divorced his first wife.

The most well known and documented story of Hubbard’s relationship with Jack Parsons, is that of the Invocation of the Goddess, Babalon,” which they performed in the “Babalon Working” ritual along with “Scarlet Woman,” Marjorie Cameron. The goal of this ritual was to produce a satanic “Moonchild.”

The only other reference to a ‘moonchild ceremony’ being performed is by Adolf Hitler:

“From page 24 of Gods and Beasts – the Nazi’s and the Occult by Dusty Sklar Pretzsche had introduced Hitler to consciousness-expanding drugs, as well as to astrological and alchemical symbolism. Hitler told Stein that Pretzsche had been present when List tried to materialize “the Incubus” in a ritual designed to create a “Moon Child.” “…About 1912, disciples of Lanz and List started the Germanen Orden under the leadership of a member of List’s Armanen, a journalist named Philipp Stauff, and several others. [ Ed.Comment: The German Orden later evolved into the Nationalist Socialist Party or Nazi Party recruiting Hitler as their 'Fuhrer']
Both being influenced by the ritual’s and teachings of Aleister Crowley, Parson’s acknowledged that Crowley’s “Book of Thoth” was in Hubbard’s possession at the time of this ritual.

http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/

I’m thinking Sarah was the moon child?


georgewalton | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:30 pm 51
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 9

Religion fascinates me

It fascinates us because we are terrified of death, oblivion…of being nothing at all for eternity.

On the other hand I tend to approach religion as Shane approached guns: it’s as good or bad as the man or woman who uses it.

Religion often becomes dangerous when it becomes a denomination. And then it hooks up with [or evolves into] those with political power. That’s when others can become, among other things, infidels.

But the religion of choice in this day and age is still money. Both Washington and Wall Street worship and adore it. In Congress, the White House and the insurance industry for example.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:31 pm 52
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 43

Voodoo Economics was how Papa Bush described primary opponent Reagan’s trickle-down theory in 1980. Changed his tune when he became VP nom.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:31 pm 53
In response to Hugh @ 48

I don’t know, I keep having these delusions that we live in a democracy.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:34 pm 54
In response to DrDick @ 53

Well, at least you’re clear that they are delusions, and not to be taken seriously.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:34 pm 55
In response to ratfood @ 52

Well, you can’t expect a Bush to be able to tell the truth fro very long, now can you?


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:36 pm 56

I believe in somethings different than me good evil aware unaware etc however I don’t believe in organized religion.


EvilDrPuma | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:36 pm 57
In response to ratfood @ 52

Then he realized the whole thing was just a cover for the rich robbing the poor, and he was fine with that.


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:37 pm 58

Too bad about all those flying saucers being just new toys for the Pentagon rather than an intelligent extraterrestial species with fully developed psychic powers investigating our planet and culture. Too bad…


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:38 pm 59
In response to EvilDrPuma @ 57

It was simply the proper order of things, after all.


Hugh | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:39 pm 60

None of the Reagan worshipers have any clue what he actually did

ratfood at #40 (sorry my browser isn’t displaying the reply button in this thread)

The NewsHour had a segment on TBTF and interviewed George Schultz, Reagan’s Secretary of the State. He’s 89 and at the Hoover Institute. I have no idea why they were interviewing him. There are only about a zillion people more clued in than him. Anyway they never asked him about the deregulation laissez-faire policies he advocated feeding into the current disasters. It just seemed terribly disconnected.

Oh, and I left a message back in the last thread. Basically, Quinn and the Congressional delegation from Illinois, especially Rush, Jackson, and Schakowsky.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:39 pm 61
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 50

Mmmm, I’ve written a lot about Parsons and Hubbard. Parson was well intentioned but naive. Hubbard was batsh*t and evil.

BTW Scientology cut a sweet deal wiht IRS circa 1993 (which may be coming to an end): all “religious services” and education is tax deductible, only religion to get that ( see Sklar v IRS for outline of their deal)


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:39 pm 62
In response to ratfood @ 52

Changed his tune when he became VP nom.

But that tune kept playing on…! 8-(


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:40 pm 63
In response to applepie @ 58

Of course that would go a long way toward explaining the current political insanity. Much more comforting than the thought that we are just a nation full of stupid and crazy people with a dissembling, mendacious, and rapacious political class who are only out to feather their own beds.


EvilDrPuma | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:42 pm 64
In response to CTuttle @ 62

…again, because like Dennis Moore it robbed from the poor and gave to the rich.


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:44 pm 65
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 61

This needs a post why did they get such a sweet deal? And when is it ending we need more tax money to pay for healthcare.


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:44 pm 66
In response to DrDick @ 63

Jung linked the flying saucer phenom to a sublimation of the urge for redemption via the return of christ.

Speaking of predictions and prophecies there are some good ones over a ClubOrlov

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:45 pm 67

I still think Sarah is the Moon Child


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:45 pm 68
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 67

I think Sarah is a real moonbat.


EvilDrPuma | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:45 pm 69
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 67

A werewolf…?


georgewalton | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:46 pm 70
In response to DrDick @ 53

No, we live in a democratic republic. That’s where the citizens get to elect those to represent those who have already been selected for them by the folks on Wall Street.

For example, it still never ceases to boggle my mind that Barack Obama received over $200,000,000 from the corporate sector going back only to 2006!!

Is that supernatural?


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:47 pm 71
In response to applepie @ 66

A Manson child imho.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:48 pm 72
In response to CTuttle @ 62

Kinda like the rationalization that the Civil War was actually about states’ rights. Have to make the poor folks believe they have a stake in the contest.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:48 pm 73

Lisa !

I didn’t believe in reincarnation in my past life, but I do now … *g*


Margot | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:48 pm 74

I’ve heard quite a few fundamentalists say it’s wrong to meditate, that it’s satanic.
Their pastors have told them this. I wonder why?


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:48 pm 75

Moonbat, werewolf I am open to suggestions.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:49 pm 76
In response to Margot @ 74

They are afraid that meditation will lead to thought and that is just too dangerous to be considered.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:49 pm 77
In response to DrDick @ 68

Driven to madness by wolves howling at her. She’ll show them, you betcha!


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:50 pm 78

Lisa – I share your fascination with these religious and occult things, but from my own bias which is:

Not only Why, but How the hell do people make this shit up for themselves, and then keep it going?

I literally just don’t get it.


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:50 pm 79
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 61

Is Scientology like the Moonies a GOP religion?


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:50 pm 80
In response to ratfood @ 77

From an airplane.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:51 pm 81
In response to Margot @ 74

Probably okay if they tithe while they’re doing it.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:51 pm 82
In response to Petrocelli @ 73

Well, ya musta been extra good in the last cycle…! You’re more aware now, eh…? ;-)


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:52 pm 83
In response to Margot @ 74

They claim that meditation is rooted in Hinduism, and it is evil to practice anything that is not rooted in Christianity/Islam/Judaism … all three religions have leaders who oppose meditation.

The real reason though is, if an individual experiences true freedom, she/he cannot be manipulated to follow idiotic rules and be enslaved by them.

Meditation is your personal way to experience true freedom.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:52 pm 84
In response to DrDick @ 80

Natch, it’s closer to the moon… which she can see from her front porch and IT’S farther away than Russia.

Just sayin’…


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:53 pm 85
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 79

I think scientiology is more like libertarianism? Definitely delusional and harmful.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:53 pm 86
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 65

They owed a lot of money and cut a deal for pennies on the dollar. I dont write about Scientology too much here..

In fall of 2008 they passed out my picture and fliers implying I’m a tewwowist to my neighbors. The picture was me at LGBT Pride in SD next to a truck with a “marital aid” on the antenna. It was not the shot that kids on my block needed to see, Luckily I was able to go aroudn and pick up the material from everyone’s door step…and yeah that’s legal, freedom of speech.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:53 pm 87
In response to CTuttle @ 82

Must be Da Beers*g*

How are ya, Dood !


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:53 pm 88
In response to CTuttle @ 82

Is that rinse, or spin?


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:54 pm 89
In response to ratfood @ 81

Or make a special “prayer offering.” Did everybody see that ol’ Anal Roberts finally got hisself righteously raptured? Been waiting for that a long time. Growing up just north of Tulsa in the 50s and 60s, I got more than my fill of his sanctimonious horseshit while fleecing the rubes congregation.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:54 pm 90
In response to Petrocelli @ 73

Hahaha!


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:54 pm 91
In response to applepie @ 85

OK Tom Cruise just seemed weird, GOP weird on Oprah.


Margot | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:55 pm 92
In response to DrDick @ 76

I’m sure you’re right. So sad, that so many people believe it’s sinful to think.


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:56 pm 93

Are the Teabaggers a cult?


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:56 pm 94
In response to Margot @ 92

I grew up among the fundies and it is their cardinal sin.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:56 pm 95
In response to ratfood @ 88

ROFL !!!


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:57 pm 96
In response to DrDick @ 89

Remember back in the ’80s when he claimed if people didn’t cough up $8 million of ORU he’d be called up Yonder? Letterman did a great bit with a globe/bank attached by a string to some pearly gates. A cutout of Roberts would slide up the string until you put a coin in the bank, which would bring him back down to Earth.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:57 pm 97
In response to applepie @ 93

They are not that organized or coherent. More of a mass hysteria.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:57 pm 98
In response to Petrocelli @ 83

Catholics do meditate on aspects of Jesus’s life, especially if Jesuit trained…but to lots of fundies, except when Catholics are helping out in Right to Life campaigns and working suppress civil marriage equality, they are idolaters, not Christians (bit of an historical disconnect there!)


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:57 pm 99

In fall of 2008 they passed out my picture and fliers implying I’m a tewwowist to my neighbors. The picture was me at LGBT Pride in SD next to a truck with a “marital aid” on the antenna. It was not the shot that kids on my block needed to see, Luckily I was able to go aroudn and pick up the material from everyone’s door step…and yeah that’s legal, freedom of speech.

Scumbags maybe we can get EW to look at them kinda hard after she is done with the White House emails.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:58 pm 100
In response to ratfood @ 96

Yeah, I had great hopes that it would happen then. Should have known that it was just another scam.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:58 pm 101
In response to Petrocelli @ 95

Just so you don’t feel too wrung out.


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:58 pm 102

Beneath the Planet of the Apes was a great movie for envisioning the future of spiritual practice in America.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:58 pm 103
In response to ratfood @ 88

Spin…serious spin…! ;-)


Margot | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:58 pm 104

Petro @ 83,
(lost my reply button)
I’m with you there.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:58 pm 105
In response to Margot @ 92

“Original thoughts” have a nasty habit of sparking revolutions against Dictators …


Splicer | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:59 pm 106

I have a name for a person who speaks with ghosts: Idiot.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 08:59 pm 107
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 98

Meditation in various forms is central to most of the Christian monastic traditions.


Lisa Derrick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:00 pm 108
In response to applepie @ 93

Not in the modern sense of the word. In the older sense (liek the cult of Attis, the cult of Orpheus, meaning an offshoot of a main belief with special rituals etc) yes they are.


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:01 pm 109
In response to Margot @ 104

It usually comes back if you refresh the page.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:01 pm 110
In response to Petrocelli @ 87

Could always be better in this day and age, but, doing alright…! *g*

Btw, Marleyfest is coming again…! ;-)


conniptionfit | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:02 pm 111
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 9

For sure we’d have a different one. Who’s to say it wouldn’t be better?


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:02 pm 112
In response to CTuttle @ 110

Harvest time for the Maui Wowee?


applepie | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:02 pm 113
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 108

Yes, they definitely have a ritual structure, and according to Colbert Nation, even a schism!


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:03 pm 114
In response to Splicer @ 106

So, are you fer or agin it? :)


conniptionfit | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:03 pm 115
In response to Petrocelli @ 83

What is prayer, if not meditation?


DrDick | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:04 pm 116

Time for me to toddle off. More grading yet to be done on the morrow. Take care all.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:04 pm 117
In response to DrDick @ 112

Heh… Much is consumed at it, but, no…! 8-P


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:05 pm 118
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 98

The word “Meditate” has different meaning to Western religions, than to Eastern philosophy. To the West, meditate means to think deeply, to focus the mind.

Eastern philosophy defines meditate as the ability to transcend or go beyond the mind.

West: Reality is rooted in the mind. [ foundation of The Secrets et al ]

East: Reality begins when you detach from the mind. [ foundation of my, as yet, unpublished Books ]


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:05 pm 119
In response to conniptionfit @ 115

Sometimes, a petition.


Knoxville | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:06 pm 120

John Kerry told supporters that he and Senate Democrats are afraid of people who hang tea bags from their rearview mirrors.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:06 pm 121
In response to Splicer @ 106

a name for a person who speaks with ghosts: Idiot.

I envy such certainty. The only thing I’m sure of is I don’t know. It might all be true.


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:06 pm 122
In response to Petrocelli @ 118

Dude you ever right it tell me on face book I’ll buy a copy.


Blub | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:07 pm 123
In response to applepie @ 102

yep. Republicans. apes. sounds about right.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:07 pm 124
In response to DrDick @ 116

Aloha Dr.*pause* D…! *g*


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:07 pm 125
In response to conniptionfit @ 115

Asking God for wishes


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:07 pm 126

‘night from the Great Swamp, doc. Stay warm.


Knoxville | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:07 pm 127
In response to conniptionfit @ 115

I don’t think that prayer in the Christian sense is the same as meditation.


Margot | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:08 pm 128
In response to DrDick @ 116

Night Doc.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:08 pm 129
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 122

Thanks ! I’ll hopefully have a contract very soon.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:08 pm 130
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 122

Dang, Petro… Ya don’t need a Publicist after all…! ;-)


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:09 pm 131
In response to RonD @ 121

Isn’t the “Truth” , yanno, that Capital T “Truth”, probably weirder than our relatively feeble imaginations?

I think so.

And certainly (grin) anyone who says with certainty that “This is the truth!” should be instantly suspect.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:09 pm 132
In response to CTuttle @ 110

I know, I know … 3rd time’s a charm ?!! *g*


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:09 pm 133
In response to DrDick @ 116

G’nite DrDick.


ThingsComeUndone | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:10 pm 134
In response to Petrocelli @ 129

Your done writing or are you still editing?


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:11 pm 135
In response to conniptionfit @ 115

See my comment @ 118. For more details, you’ll have to wait for me to get published … *g*


Knoxville | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:13 pm 136

I think Sean Hannity believes he’s speaking with God when he’s monologuing.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:13 pm 137
In response to Petrocelli @ 135

So, losing my mind was a GOOD thing?

Hint: it’s always in the last place you look…


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:13 pm 138
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 134

First Book is done, 2nd & 3rd being written when I’m not on FDL. Publisher usually edits and chooses Title.


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:14 pm 139
In response to Knoxville @ 136

i.e. talking to Himself?


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:14 pm 140
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 131

Well, otoh, we have long known that the answer to “The Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything” is 42.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:16 pm 141
In response to RonD @ 140

RonD ! How ya doin’, dood ?


Knoxville | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:17 pm 142
In response to ratfood @ 139

Yup. It’s subtle. Easier to hear when you’re listening to him on the radio. He monologues for an hour straight, both the Speaker of the Word and the Listener, clearly One with Himself.


cinnamonape | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:17 pm 143

I found the Pew Survey interesting, because it simply didn’t account for the fact that most Fundamentalists and other Christians are told that things like belief in reincarnation, fortune-telling and astrology are “occult” beliefs. Thus they would not, of course, believe in them.

But they do believe in “returning to life after death” (the rapture, the Resurrection of Christ ‘in the flesh’). So much for not believing in reincarnation. And they believe in “prophesies” – which is nothing more than telling the fortune of nations and the planet. Furthermore, like fortune-telling, they believe that by undertaking supplicating acts like prayer good things will come their way. Heathens might kill a chicken or burn paper money. And like astrology they do believe in “the signs”- omens of coming events that are utterly unrelated.

They believe in supernatural demons and friends…devils and angels. Magic…laying on hands (Benny Hinn) and the “power of prayer” beaming health into other people. Some, like the former President and Sarah Palin, believe that God speaks directly to them.

True there are some on the left that accept Spiritualism and have, in fact, been as anti-Science as Fundamentalists on the right. Really the only distinction that can be made between these groups is whether they are group-centric (and don’t give a damn towards others- being religio-centric, nationalist, and/or racist) or are more broadly “universalist” (sometimes extending this to oppose ‘speciesism’).


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:20 pm 144
In response to RonD @ 140

Yeah, if you trust The Mice. And Slartibartfast.

I always thought the elevators had it right.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:20 pm 145
In response to Petrocelli @ 141

Pretty good, Petro! Finished my internship, and I’ve spent the last couple just kickin’ it in the sunshine and playing with my (gulp) grandkids. How about you!


Knoxville | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:21 pm 146
In response to cinnamonape @ 143

I think the whole notion of a science/religion dichotomy is odd.

One seeks knowledge, the other understanding.

Not mutually exclusive.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:22 pm 147
In response to Petrocelli @ 141

BTW, Petro, that name you don’t recognize on fb is me.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:25 pm 148
In response to RonD @ 145

We’re preparing for the Holidays and looking forward to lots of snowball fights, followed by Grilled Cheese Sandwiches & Ginger Tea.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:25 pm 149
In response to Knoxville @ 146

Thank you, Knoxville. That is how I approached it, when the subject kept coming up in my classes. One is a philosophical structure of the Universe, and one is a problem-solving method. There is no fundamental conflict, in my view.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:26 pm 150
In response to RonD @ 147

Really ? Pls send me another friend request.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:28 pm 151
In response to Petrocelli @ 148

We are likewise preparing, although the only snowball fights will be on tv, and I’m going to fry some gatortail for some friends who’ve never had it. Ginger tea sounds great!


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:30 pm 152

Hi guys! I know it’s late, but I’m just getting here. I only breezed through, or it would be midnight, but this looks like a great thread.
Lots of my fav’s.
Bright, wonderful feelings sent out to all tonight.


letsbereasonable | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:30 pm 153
In response to Lisa Derrick @ 9

SO SO SO True…
Though at the same time – Religions (unfortunately, but especially Christendom) have been a major factor, even responsible for some of the worst atrocities…

It brings out the beauty.. and seemingly the worst in us at the same time..

Yet its interesting to note the Bible says this – in one translation:
“Happy are those *conscious* of the spiritual *need*” Matthew 5:3


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:31 pm 154
In response to demi @ 152

{{{ demi }}}


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:32 pm 155

Ah, a cool breeze, and the colors are a little more vivid….Demi must have come on thread.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:32 pm 156
In response to RonD @ 151

It’s regular Black Tea, with a slice of fresh Ginger added to the boiling water. It heats up the body enough to end Colds & Coughs.


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:32 pm 157
In response to Petrocelli @ 154

Hi honey. No snowball fights here, but I’m hosting a cookie exchange tomorrow at the gym. Got some stuff dropped off tonight, and if this is a sample of what tomorrow will be, it’s gonna be fun. And, tasty.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:33 pm 158

I knew this was too good to be true…!

The Senate on Wednesday will debate for the first time in American history a proposal to create a single-payer, Medicare-for-all health care system.

“In my view, the single-payer approach is the only way we will ever have a cost-effective, comprehensive health care system in this country,” said Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), whose amendment will come before the Senate.

Sanders acknowledged that his amendment would not pass. “As a result of the power of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries, this amendment will not pass or even get very many votes. Nonetheless, given the view of millions of us that a single-payer approach is the only way this country will ever provide comprehensive, cost-effective health care to all its citizens, this is an important step forward.

Get It Scored…! At least that, Bernie… Establish a CBO benchmark…!!!


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:34 pm 159
In response to RonD @ 155

Hey, sweetie. Congrats on finishing your internship. Good for you, and, what a blessing for your current and future students. Each one, reach one. How we do it, si?


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:35 pm 160
In response to demi @ 157

Word of caution … “Once on the Lips, Forever on the Hips” *g*


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:35 pm 161
In response to demi @ 157

Hey demi!
We had a cookie exchange this week — it was really fun, though my system had a major shock around 4:00 p.m. after eating 4 cookies!


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:36 pm 162
In response to Petrocelli @ 156

I’ll try it…we usually use Mom’s Old Recipe For What Ails You, which is equal parts honey, lemon juice, and bourbon. Heat to boiling, and repeat as necessary. I can never remember if it worked or not.


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:38 pm 163
In response to Petrocelli @ 160

I’m just encouraging friendships and sharing. Not that much of a sweet cookie eater, but, Oh Gosh, don’t even talk to me about EggNog!!! We all have our Achille’s Heels, eh?


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:39 pm 164
In response to RonD @ 162

707 !!!

Sounds like a surefire cure …


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:39 pm 165

On a serious note, I think there is a serious degradation of American English happening.

People used to be quite fluent in the “subjunctive mood” of the verb. If I were inclined, be that as it may, and so forth.

The most often butchered spot of the subjunctive I hear recently is “Did you want fries with that?”

That’s the past tense of the verb “want.” It’s not the subjunctive mood which is “Would you want?” and they are entirely two different meanings.

There is quite a difference in the mood of the verb as in “would you believe…,” versus “did you believe…

And when we transpose stories and beliefs of other times as well as languages, we don’t always import them into American English very well.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:39 pm 166
In response to demi @ 163

Eggnog, with a little nutmeg….


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:40 pm 167
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 165

Say what… Sistah…? ;-)


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:41 pm 168
In response to ChristineEdmonson @ 161

I’m making rice krispie squares in the morning. 50% less sugar white frosting and red sugar sprinkles. Oh, hell. It’s the holidays. (And, the wedding has happened. :)


letsbereasonable | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:41 pm 169
In response to ThingsComeUndone @ 15

” Last I checked all Christian religions had some informal belief in ghosts, as far as fortune telling goes the Bible is a bunch of fortune tellers/prophets telling the future.”

Actually the bible contrasts fortune-tellers from prophets – and even true prophets from false-prophets.. but I cant blame you for thinking that because the bible isnt really explained much and has been defamed MUCH!

Deuteronomy 18:9,10 – They were to avoid people who did such things and detest them.

Acts 15:20,29 – avoid and abstain from idols…

18:20 – God condemned false-prophets who’s goal was to move people away from him, for their own selfish ends..

much more on that..


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:41 pm 170
In response to demi @ 163

Eggnog, with a healthy splash of Rum … Nirvana !


nahant | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:43 pm 171

Aloha CT..


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:44 pm 172
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 165

Yes. Common vernacular English is a slaughterhouse of technical grammar, but as long as I have my fries when I drive away from the window, it probably won’t bother me for long.


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:45 pm 173
In response to RonD @ 166

And, a little splash of somethin’. It might be the somethin’ that’s adding a few ounces.
Oh, just saw Petro’s comment. Totally, and truly Nirvana.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:45 pm 174
In response to nahant @ 171

Aloha, old friend…! *g*


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:46 pm 175
In response to demi @ 168

I made Martha Stewart’s Everyday Food, “chocolate bottom coconut squares” easy and cheap. (December 2005). Since the kids moved out, there isn’t much baking here anymore. But that’s ok.

We are watching “Late Nite with Jimmy Fallon” and he is hi-larious!


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:46 pm 176
In response to Petrocelli @ 170

You might also like nog with a splash o’ Southern Comfort…too sweet for me usually, but perfect for nog…


nahant | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:47 pm 177
In response to CTuttle @ 174

ready for the Holidays?


ratfood | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:47 pm 178
In response to demi @ 152

Ya, you too demi.

Been xmas shopping over at Amazon. I hope my family will be happy with their box sets of the Planet of the Apes DVDs. :-)

Powering down now. See y’all.


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:47 pm 179
In response to CTuttle @ 167

In this case I am yer Grammah, not yer Sistah!

Verbs have mood and tense and person.

Moods in English are Imperative, Indicative and Subjunctive.

Imperative: “LISTEN!”
Indicative: “He listens:
Subjunctive: “If he would listen”

Then there’s tense, which is what “sense of time” the verb takes.

So “Did you want fries?” is past tense; you “wanted” in the past.

Which is totally different than “Would you want fries with this order?” which is “subjunctive” in mood.

We’re just not fluent in mood or auxilliary verbs anymore is my point, and it’s leading to a degradation of language.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:48 pm 180
In response to ChristineEdmonson @ 175

Christine !

Jimmy is soooo much funnier than the guy he replaced …


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:48 pm 181
In response to RonD @ 176

Thanks … always wanted a reason to try Southern Comfort.


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:49 pm 182
In response to ratfood @ 178

G’nite to you & Bob !


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:49 pm 183
In response to ratfood @ 178

‘night, ratfood!


marymccurnin | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:50 pm 184
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 179

My pet peeve is “Where is the hat at?” I want to run from the room when I hear that.


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:50 pm 185
In response to ratfood @ 178

Pecks to you and Bob.


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:52 pm 186
In response to RonD @ 176

Yessireebob, er, ron. Did that last week. Totally agree about the sweetness.


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:52 pm 187
In response to Petrocelli @ 180

And so damn adorable! That Jimmy Fallon has killer suits, jebus.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:53 pm 188
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 179

a degradation of language.

I agree, though I am often part of the problem. The greater worry to me is that as language is the “map of thought” we are seeing a corresponding degradation in precision of thought, in general. The two are inextricably linked, imvho.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:54 pm 189
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 179

Grammah, Yer preaching to the choir…! ;-)


Petrocelli | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:55 pm 190
In response to RonD @ 188

Excellent point ! I concur.


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:56 pm 191
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 179

I’ve often said, or at least once in a while said, Words don’t mean, People do.
I love to read and I love to write and I love how stringing words together works its magic.


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:56 pm 192
In response to marymccurnin @ 184

Mary,
My mother used to respond, dryly, “before the a and the t.”


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:57 pm 193
In response to marymccurnin @ 184

Me too, but I do it as well.

It’s a Germanic influence on Midwest dialect. It’s perfectly legal, in fact mandatory in German to throw that verb-modifying-adverb at the end of the sentence, yet in a dictionary, have the adverb be IN FRONT of the verb.

Example:

Upfuck in German is legit, and you could say it as an imperative:
“You UpFuck!”

But in AmEnglish, we generally say “You FuckUp” and it’s a noun, versus “You’re Fucking Up” and that’s an iterative tense verb, and we all say “yep.”

Go figure. :)


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:59 pm 194
In response to ChristineEdmonson @ 192

Funny! My grandmother-in-law used to say the same thing. I once heard her say it to the Lieutenant Governor of FL at a town meeting.


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 09:59 pm 195

Okay, getting out in the weeds for me here. Gotta go read and snore.
Love and Service. Why we’re here.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:01 pm 196
In response to demi @ 195

‘night, sweety. check your fb.


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:01 pm 197
In response to RonD @ 194

And my mother, to my high school dates…heh.


CTuttle | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:01 pm 198
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 193

Succinctness works too…! Less verbiage can also get one’s point across, at times, M’dear…! *g*


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:03 pm 199
In response to CTuttle @ 198

And I’ve been thinking about this, for our library blog. Hemmingway, like…


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:03 pm 200

I didn’t mean to derail, but my other point is, is that we can’t, really can’t, express things in Modern American English that other cultures in time or geography do.

There’s the hortative, the optative, the imprecative moods, as well as other tenses of time. Other cultures look at time differently; yep!

So when you add all this business together, sometimes what are expressed as beliefs in English, are not actual beliefs in other cultures or times.

I don’t think for a minute that the ancient greeks believed the literal instance of Chronos and Chaos creating the Universe. It was just a handy way to explain how meaninglessness and time got together to create a world that the next generation of Gods could work within.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:04 pm 201
In response to CTuttle @ 198

Why use one word when ten will do? Where’s the fun?


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:04 pm 202
In response to CTuttle @ 198

Less is more?


demi | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:05 pm 203
In response to RonD @ 196

Will do.
Hugs.


punaise | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:06 pm 204
In response to DrDick @ 3

The Lovin’ Joeful (of himself):

Do you believe in magic in an old pol’s heart
How the “few sick” can free him, wherever they start
And it’s magic, if the Senate is groovy
It makes you feel happy like an old-time floozy
I’ll tell you about the magic, and it’ll free your soul lobbyists
But it’s like trying to tell a stranger ’bout filibusters and all that sh*t


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:08 pm 205
In response to punaise @ 204

Oh punaise,
we love you!


ChristineEdmonson | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:10 pm 206
In response to ChristineEdmonson @ 205

And I even know the tune…


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:11 pm 207
In response to Kelly Canfield @ 200

Again, yes. A language encompasses an entire worldview, a map, if you will. When one learns a new language, it lays a new map over the old one….every language, I believe, has certain inherent assumptions and prejudices in its background. That said, one must also remember that language is not static, but evolving constantly, and , at the present, incredibly fast.


RonD | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:14 pm 208

Laptop battery going dead.
Goodnight, all. The best of all possible tomorrows to you.


Hugh | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:20 pm 209

In linguistics, generally only two tenses: present and past are recognized. Everything else, including future is aspect. How the subjunctive is used varies from language to language. French and Spanish both have the subjunctive but Spanish I believe uses them in certain kinds of “if” conditional clauses where French does not. French actually has a fairly logical use of the subjunctive but even so much of it is actually habit and in many cases it is avoided and subjunctive tenses have simplified. It is hardly static.

I have never had much use for the subjunctive in English. We tend to use modals: would, could, should, might, may, can, etc. in their place or just drop it entirely. I have no problem with this.


Kelly Canfield | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:20 pm 210
In response to RonD @ 207

Yes, until they die and are forgotten.

Which is the case for ancient greek, latin, aramaic, old arabic, old pharsi, old english.

So my point is twofold; these may not be easily transliterated into modern American English. And as you point out, Modern American English is rapidly changing.

Translating multiple cultures into a rapidly changing language is quite the pin for angels to dance on for sure.


Hugh | Tuesday December 15, 2009 10:32 pm 211
In response to letsbereasonable @ 153

Yet its interesting to note the Bible says this – in one translation:
“Happy are those *conscious* of the spiritual *need*” Matthew 5:3

The original Greek is quite close to the traditional King James version:

Μακάριοι οἱ πτωχοὶ τῷ πνεύματι, ὅτι αὐτῶν ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν

Blessed (are) those poor in spirit, for of them is the kingdom of the heavens.


FishOfTheProletariat | Wednesday December 16, 2009 08:06 am 212

Fundamentalist Churchianity condemns such things as Satanic. There is nothing else to this story.

“Say the magic words, and you will live forever. Refuse to say them, and you will be tormented for eternity. You deserve it… but Jeezus loves you.”

Who’s irrational?


calli | Wednesday December 16, 2009 09:40 am 213

I’m reading here that progressives are as delusional as Hitler when it comes to a belief system. The great thing about this country is no one, particularly Christians, care what progressives believe about spiritual matters and will not interfer with you unless it involves human sacrifice, child abuse, animal abuse, or illegal drugs.


DonWilliams | Wednesday December 16, 2009 05:09 pm 214

Democrats More Likely to Believe in Ghosts, Past Lives, Mediums and Global Warming.


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