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	<title>Comments on: Queens NY GOP Won&#8217;t Dump Pagan Candidate</title>
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		<title>By: Lisa Derrick</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8121</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Derrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8121</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Theodism split Astaru which has a more aggressively white-male side. However Astaru is shunned by certain Christian Identity neo-Nazi groups. Fascist and racist views can creep into belief systems.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While Theodism appears to have a patriarcal hierarchy, like really, so what? So do lots of religions.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At least here SoCal, various Druidic, Norse and related groups have no issue admitting people of color to their groups. It’s a belief system, not a race thing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; There are lots of Pagan groups to choose from, some exclusively male, some exclusively female, some which emphasize African or Native Peoples’ original faiths. Others go more European, or Greco-Roman, some do Pick what resonates with you.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But in NO WAY are the majority of Pagan groups racist, fascist or anything else, and I wouldn’t cast Halloran’s faith as anything more than a magical working group that uses the Norse pantheon as opposed to the Celtic or Greek or whatever. Not everyone who uses the Norse pantheon is a white supremacist, and to imply that is narrow minded and bigoted.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theodism split Astaru which has a more aggressively white-male side. However Astaru is shunned by certain Christian Identity neo-Nazi groups. Fascist and racist views can creep into belief systems.</p>
<p>While Theodism appears to have a patriarcal hierarchy, like really, so what? So do lots of religions.</p>
<p>At least here SoCal, various Druidic, Norse and related groups have no issue admitting people of color to their groups. It’s a belief system, not a race thing.</p>
<p> There are lots of Pagan groups to choose from, some exclusively male, some exclusively female, some which emphasize African or Native Peoples’ original faiths. Others go more European, or Greco-Roman, some do Pick what resonates with you.  </p>
<p>But in NO WAY are the majority of Pagan groups racist, fascist or anything else, and I wouldn’t cast Halloran’s faith as anything more than a magical working group that uses the Norse pantheon as opposed to the Celtic or Greek or whatever. Not everyone who uses the Norse pantheon is a white supremacist, and to imply that is narrow minded and bigoted.</p>
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		<title>By: Snowcalla</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8119</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowcalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;But you left the impression to everyone reading these comments that Heathens ARE a racist hate-group and that this candidate in particular is being supported because he is racist.  I would just like to make it clear to people that this is not the case.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;You’ll notice, if you research modern Nordic religionists even a little bit, that it’s a white-people-only thing. This guy may be a stalking horse for the corps of fascistic Republicans who lean toward white-identity politics, neo-nazi in philosophy, beliefs that are steadily gaining in power within the party.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you left the impression to everyone reading these comments that Heathens ARE a racist hate-group and that this candidate in particular is being supported because he is racist.  I would just like to make it clear to people that this is not the case.  </p>
<blockquote><p>You’ll notice, if you research modern Nordic religionists even a little bit, that it’s a white-people-only thing. This guy may be a stalking horse for the corps of fascistic Republicans who lean toward white-identity politics, neo-nazi in philosophy, beliefs that are steadily gaining in power within the party.</p>
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		<title>By: NewsNag</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8118</link>
		<dc:creator>NewsNag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, Snowcalla, I agree with you.  Most of the Nordic stuff is just fine, a fine religion.  Sorry if what I wrote appeared to lump that in with the extremist minority.  But please don’t take the present’s apparent relative calm and the extremists’ current lack of overt significance as the end of a potential looming storm; that would be unconscionable dereliction of public duty.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What I tried to convey is that the Nordic white separatist religionists already form a small but vibrant core of the U.S. white fascist racist movement - now, this day - in the U.S. even outside of prisons, and as you say in Europe/Russia already.  It shouldn’t be ignored and downplayed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To overlook that knot of highly motivated and organized followers is to overlook the overall cohesion they embody and a throbbing growth engine that the white power movement can feed off of.  From that tight kernel (nut, if you will) can easily come a much bigger exponential increase.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All it takes is for a certain few power brokers/corporate backers to silently shift to positions of support of the semi-respectable political face they show to the public.  That’s how movements grow.  That’s how it has grown in Europe.  And the U.S. is not immune.  Especially with the financial collapse reshuffling the deck in ways we haven’t begun to fathom yet.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Watch Europe and Russia.  The nordic white separatists and their fellow haters are gathering a focused yet manic energy that proved unstoppable in the 1930s.  The U.S. had its lesser version then as well and had better be prepared to deal with it at home and abroad.  Otherwise we’ll wake up one morning with a Republican government returned to power that is peppered with even worse racists and with thinly disguised white separatists and even cleaned-up neo-nazis.  Then it will be too late.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It can happen here, and it’s incipiently happening “over there” already.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Snowcalla, I agree with you.  Most of the Nordic stuff is just fine, a fine religion.  Sorry if what I wrote appeared to lump that in with the extremist minority.  But please don’t take the present’s apparent relative calm and the extremists’ current lack of overt significance as the end of a potential looming storm; that would be unconscionable dereliction of public duty.</p>
<p>What I tried to convey is that the Nordic white separatist religionists already form a small but vibrant core of the U.S. white fascist racist movement &#8211; now, this day &#8211; in the U.S. even outside of prisons, and as you say in Europe/Russia already.  It shouldn’t be ignored and downplayed.</p>
<p>To overlook that knot of highly motivated and organized followers is to overlook the overall cohesion they embody and a throbbing growth engine that the white power movement can feed off of.  From that tight kernel (nut, if you will) can easily come a much bigger exponential increase.</p>
<p>All it takes is for a certain few power brokers/corporate backers to silently shift to positions of support of the semi-respectable political face they show to the public.  That’s how movements grow.  That’s how it has grown in Europe.  And the U.S. is not immune.  Especially with the financial collapse reshuffling the deck in ways we haven’t begun to fathom yet.</p>
<p>Watch Europe and Russia.  The nordic white separatists and their fellow haters are gathering a focused yet manic energy that proved unstoppable in the 1930s.  The U.S. had its lesser version then as well and had better be prepared to deal with it at home and abroad.  Otherwise we’ll wake up one morning with a Republican government returned to power that is peppered with even worse racists and with thinly disguised white separatists and even cleaned-up neo-nazis.  Then it will be too late.</p>
<p>It can happen here, and it’s incipiently happening “over there” already.</p>
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		<title>By: NewsNag</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8117</link>
		<dc:creator>NewsNag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8117</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Regarding the subterranean American white power movement’s embrace of Nordic paganism, we progressives and other fair-minded peoples had better get an understanding of the festering network of white-separatist racists and their thinking and the means they have been employing for decades to expand their reach and cohesion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Otherwise, we will wake up one day under a Republican government that is not only the usual vile and vindictive GOP that we know and loathe, but will be teeming with neo-nazi functionaries at all levels of that government.  That has happened to a very limited extent already, even moreso with Bush II than those that came before, but if we let them slip into the cracks of the mainstream unacknowledged and unchecked, then we are heading for a hell of a nasty ride.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This applies across the world as well, especially in eastern Europe and Russia, where neo-nazis and other anti-semites and fascist racists have been simmering toward a boil since the early 1990s.  The economic conditions and the concomitant tilt rightward there presages a nasty turn, making it that much more important that the U.S. hold the course against fascism and racism at home.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Otherwise, we’re heading toward a terrifying world war the outcome of which is far from guaranteed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the subterranean American white power movement’s embrace of Nordic paganism, we progressives and other fair-minded peoples had better get an understanding of the festering network of white-separatist racists and their thinking and the means they have been employing for decades to expand their reach and cohesion.</p>
<p>Otherwise, we will wake up one day under a Republican government that is not only the usual vile and vindictive GOP that we know and loathe, but will be teeming with neo-nazi functionaries at all levels of that government.  That has happened to a very limited extent already, even moreso with Bush II than those that came before, but if we let them slip into the cracks of the mainstream unacknowledged and unchecked, then we are heading for a hell of a nasty ride.</p>
<p>This applies across the world as well, especially in eastern Europe and Russia, where neo-nazis and other anti-semites and fascist racists have been simmering toward a boil since the early 1990s.  The economic conditions and the concomitant tilt rightward there presages a nasty turn, making it that much more important that the U.S. hold the course against fascism and racism at home.</p>
<p>Otherwise, we’re heading toward a terrifying world war the outcome of which is far from guaranteed.</p>
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		<title>By: Snowcalla</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8116</link>
		<dc:creator>Snowcalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8116</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Not really.  There ARE some Heathen groups that are all “White Power” but most are nothing like that and go to great lengths to distance themselves from hate groups posing as a religious group.   Most of the “white Power” Heathen groups are formed in prisons and that’s where they stay - at least in the USA.  Overseas it is a bit of a different matter as many religious groups are also “nationalistic” in flavor.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;NewsNag - you are putting forth a religious stereotype that is incorrect and irresponsible.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This article helps explain what the religion is and the problem that they have faced by hate groups looking to corrupt the religion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.religioustolerance.org/asatru.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.religioustolerance.org/asatru.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not really.  There ARE some Heathen groups that are all “White Power” but most are nothing like that and go to great lengths to distance themselves from hate groups posing as a religious group.   Most of the “white Power” Heathen groups are formed in prisons and that’s where they stay &#8211; at least in the USA.  Overseas it is a bit of a different matter as many religious groups are also “nationalistic” in flavor.  </p>
<p>NewsNag &#8211; you are putting forth a religious stereotype that is incorrect and irresponsible.</p>
<p>This article helps explain what the religion is and the problem that they have faced by hate groups looking to corrupt the religion.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/asatru.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.religioustolerance.org/asatru.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Natasha Chart</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8112</link>
		<dc:creator>Natasha Chart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8112</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The ‘Harry Potter is paganism’ charges have always been hilarious to me. For one thing, if pagans could really do any of that, there wouldn’t have been a successful Inquisition. For another, the Harry Potter books have, afaict, presented an entirely agnostic fictional universe: there is no spiritual explanation for extraordinary happenings, no theology is presented or even debated, not a single character professes any faith whatever. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s hard to get a religious argument out of the books unless you’re part of the same fundamentalist culture that was busy spreading rumors in the 80s that Smurf toys were possessed by demons, causing many fundamentalist parents (including mine,) to throw away the Smurf toys of their very disappointed offspring (including me.) &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, Lisa, minor quibble: it’s Asatru, rather than Astaru. But otherwise, thanks for writing about this like you did.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ‘Harry Potter is paganism’ charges have always been hilarious to me. For one thing, if pagans could really do any of that, there wouldn’t have been a successful Inquisition. For another, the Harry Potter books have, afaict, presented an entirely agnostic fictional universe: there is no spiritual explanation for extraordinary happenings, no theology is presented or even debated, not a single character professes any faith whatever. </p>
<p>It’s hard to get a religious argument out of the books unless you’re part of the same fundamentalist culture that was busy spreading rumors in the 80s that Smurf toys were possessed by demons, causing many fundamentalist parents (including mine,) to throw away the Smurf toys of their very disappointed offspring (including me.) </p>
<p>Also, Lisa, minor quibble: it’s Asatru, rather than Astaru. But otherwise, thanks for writing about this like you did.</p>
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		<title>By: solerso</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8111</link>
		<dc:creator>solerso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8111</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;JUSUS CHRIST ARE YOU KIDDING? democrats elect a pagan? they are still sucking up to the NRA trying to get wayne la pierre to admint they arent “socialists”..i think paganism’s great. i dont really know anything about it escept in the historical sense,but it seems roght and good that, after being virtually exterminated  by monotheists, people are dumping it now for polyrtheism and nature religions.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JUSUS CHRIST ARE YOU KIDDING? democrats elect a pagan? they are still sucking up to the NRA trying to get wayne la pierre to admint they arent “socialists”..i think paganism’s great. i dont really know anything about it escept in the historical sense,but it seems roght and good that, after being virtually exterminated  by monotheists, people are dumping it now for polyrtheism and nature religions.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8110</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8110</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have a hard time thinking the vast majority of the people on the left aren’t “tolerant” of the religious. Sorry to say this, but that’s just BS. The record must be corrected. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Intolerance is being persecuted against. When did anyone on the left try to ban anyone from attending church or practicing their faith? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In all but a few states in this country, same sex relationships aren’t recognized. The federal government doesn’t recognize legally-sanctioned relationships of that kind. That’s intolerance. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Lots of people on the left view all holy books just as fictional as Harry Potter, but that doesn’t mean they’re intolerance. Tolerance is accepting and refusing to persecute those who are different. The Left of this country, for all intents and purposes, does that with a flourish.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a hard time thinking the vast majority of the people on the left aren’t “tolerant” of the religious. Sorry to say this, but that’s just BS. The record must be corrected. </p>
<p>Intolerance is being persecuted against. When did anyone on the left try to ban anyone from attending church or practicing their faith? </p>
<p>In all but a few states in this country, same sex relationships aren’t recognized. The federal government doesn’t recognize legally-sanctioned relationships of that kind. That’s intolerance. </p>
<p>Lots of people on the left view all holy books just as fictional as Harry Potter, but that doesn’t mean they’re intolerance. Tolerance is accepting and refusing to persecute those who are different. The Left of this country, for all intents and purposes, does that with a flourish.</p>
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		<title>By: AngelsAwake</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8109</link>
		<dc:creator>AngelsAwake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 03:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;True, true. The altar of Money and Big Business gets more sacrifices on it than all other religions put together.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, true. The altar of Money and Big Business gets more sacrifices on it than all other religions put together.</p>
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		<title>By: gtomkins</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/queens-ny-gop-wont-dump-pagan-candidate/#comment-8108</link>
		<dc:creator>gtomkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 03:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;We’re all pagans now&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Last I heard, Mammon was a pagan god, and no cult is more widely and faithfully followed in this country than that of Mammon.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We’re all pagans now</p>
<p>Last I heard, Mammon was a pagan god, and no cult is more widely and faithfully followed in this country than that of Mammon.</p>
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