BTW, the new head of the NIH is an evangelical christian..could make stem cell research weird….?

In June 2007 a Gallup poll revealed

The majority of Republicans in the United States do not believe the theory of evolution is true and do not believe that humans evolved over millions of years from less advanced forms of life.

That’s because they didn’t.

In the case of the Republicans, I may be willing to concede the point that they have not in fact evolved. For the rest of the human race, however, it is well established fact.

It would seem that we have an anthropological consensus here.

geez louise – a forking biography? the dumbing down of america continues….

I knew you all would enjoy that factoid!

At the rate we are going my incoming freshman will be on a par with rocks.

America, last in health care, FIRST in ignorance.

The accompanying bliss appears to have skipped me. Do I need to submit a form?

And yet Uwe Boll can commit crimes against cinematography whenever he feels like it…

But Mel Gibson’s little Jesus snuff flick shows to rapturous response. How sad.

Ah, but Darwin is well loved: http://cakeheadlovesevil.wordp…..f-tattoos/

Yeah, as far as I can tell all these ignorant asswipes are pissed as hell over nothing. Does not sound like bliss to me. Of course I do have a theory that most of them are only happy when they are miserable and pissed off.

To be fair, Mel makes scourging look so FUN.

You would think the flick could at least make it into the art movie theatres.

I am sorry, but we all have a moral obligation to appease the most ignorant and hateful among us and to piss on everybody else.

I wonder why people are so afraid of ideas, so threatened.

Your freshmen are 6000 years old?

/s

Like if they are strong in their faith, so what if they get new ideas.it’s information not conversion

Because their “faith” is based on not thinking. Confronted with rational evidence it melts away like a late spring frost.

No, but that is the last time some of their minds were used.

That’s how old they make us feel.

Maybe the Left should pretend to espouse Creationism, which would undoubtedly drive all the thumpers to embrace evolution.

Education will fuck up the rapture.

I practice a really (seemingly to others) non-rational faith, but i have no problem reading about other ideas.

Unless yer talkin’ about home schoolin’, which is Rapture-friendly edumacashun.

That is because, unlike most of our Talibangelicals, your faith is strong. Theirs is weak and easily shattered. It is very much grounded in ignorance and they avidly want to retain the surety ignorance brings and pass it on to their descendants (and ours as well if they can).

Oh home schooling isnt just for fundies anymore! I know pagan parents who home school.

Your context is unclear. “Confronted with rational evidence, it melts away…” The evidence or the faith?
I am amazed at how many defences they raise and how convoluted the “reasoning” gets when confronted with undeniable truth.

So do some of my colleagues, but that is because they are dissatisfied with the quality of the local schools.

Oh fine! Go ahead and pee all over my attempt at funny.:-P

Evolution failed for those Americans who believe they got here through the Garden of Eden (somewhere in the Middle East). They are prime example toads who escaped from the Garden but never developed to a higher level. George Bush used to blow up fellow Republicans, birthers, deathers, and tenthers.

You can add a statistician to the consensus.

The referent should be fairly clear in the context, but “it” refers to faith.

We now have statistical proof of the premise!

Well thank goodness we don’t have religious censorship like they have in Iran. Ours is honest to God, old fashioned, 100% American religious censorship. If God had wanted it any other way, he wouldn’t have written the Bible in English.

testing

Elizabethan English, no less.

I know the feeling. Just this last Sunday, a young whippersnapper said to me, “You remember Watergate? We only read about it in history class. . .”

Oh home schooling isnt just for fundies anymore! I know pagan parents who whom home school.

I was home schooled./

Thing is, the majority of Biblical scholars will admit that the Bible is mostly allegorical. Not the fundies, every English word must be just as God spoketh it.

I find it hard to believe that there is no distributor anywhere in the US that will not take on this film. It has got to be part of the PR campaign to promote it. Look at the shit that does get distribution.

well, in Tolkien, orcs were supposed to have been created from mud and tortured elves.

I find his unbelievable. A docudrama about a scientific great cannot be shown in my country because of the legitimization and institutionalization of wingnut religious extremism. Someone please stop national death spiral we seem to be on. I want to get off.

Honk, honk!!!

;~P

What’s really odd about this is Paul Bettany (the dude playing Charles Darwin in Creation) has another movie coming out that is sure to be just as “blasphemous” to Fundamentalist Christians as Creation is.

The film is called Legion, and Bettany plays the archangel Michael. Michael comes down to earth to save the second coming of Christ from God’s wrath. There’s lots of explosions. And he battles a mace wielding Gabriel inside the dinner.

I think this has more to do with box office potential then it does inciting the wrath of the Religious Right.

worked :)

I have a woman in my morning class who wears a pentacle and is home-schooling her daughter. The daughter comes to class with her mom about half the time.

Amen to that!

When my hippy brother-in-law was working for the TVA in Chattanooga in 1969 one of the secretaries told him if God has wanted him to have a beard he wouldn’t have made razors.

when I wrote for an edited a national mag on religious history, I created a regular feature called “Found in Translation” where I’d pick a verse and then using Biblegateway.com get five or six translations. It was amusing to me to see the variations in The Word of God.

In the KingJamesVersion there are references to SATYRS, who knew satyrs existed! But hey, it’s in the Bible!

Erasmus was one of the translators btw on KJV.

Scholars, of any sort, they ain’t. They cannot even follow the rather direct an simple directives of their supposed savior, the Rabbi Yeshua. You know, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone,” “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s,” “As you do unto the least of you, so have you done unto me.”

Me too, if skipping more hours in high school than I attended.

I used to roll my joints for each school day the night before. Always eleven, because apparently ten would not have been sufficient…

Never understood that. Who knew that the big guy had all that talking to do – and who wrote it down?

In the KingJamesVersion there are references to SATYRS, who knew satyrs existed!

Hell, some of ‘em were Popes.

That’s that Higher Criticism thing, y’know.

You are my kind of girl! I used to skip school and spend the day with my boyfriend who was a “college man”.
Racey.

Meant to say, “unless you agree that rules in our Government mean nothing COUNTS.”

Oh edit button, wherefore art thou?

She obviously had not read all the way through Leviticus (the Fundies’ Fav!), since it specifically forbids shaving.

καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια ἐλευθερώσει ὑμᾶς.

And I blew that by pasting in the wrong sentence. What a terrible waste it is to lose one’s mind…

It can be hard for some kids whose parents aren’t mainstream faith–they can catch flak in public schools. And when it comes to curriculum, some schools dont meet the parents’ standards.

Try this

Lolcat bible translator

LOL!

And in today’s other ignorable news, Joe “You Lie!” Wilson was formally rebuked by the House today.

In the immortal words of the Divine Miss M, “Why bother?” Censure? Yeah, I could go for censure. Expulsion from the House? Yeah, I can even see that as possible. But telling that racist asshole, “Naughty, naughty, don’t do that again!”

strangely, the fundies seem to have less of a problem with fantasy portrayals of religion – even blasphemous – portrayals of fantastic realities, than they do with the portrayal of religiously problematic reality. They’re not really concerned about religion. It’s all about power.

Ambiguity is very scary.

Thanks. Still not a girl but hope springs eternal.:-)

They didnt much mind the Narnia movies…

OK. I give up.

That’s greek to me!

Ah! Now I know the definition of pretzel-logic.

Easy for you to say.

Weirdly Kucinch voted AGAINST reprimanding Wilson. Like did he approach it forma free speech point of view? I thought he was pretty liberal

Some of us rather enjoy it. It opens up the possibilities.

Wonder how they’d feel about a film adaptation of Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters?”

I’m not sure what DK’s logic was. I suspect it might be, “Why bother?”

John 8:32 The truth shall set you free.

I look forward to the film adaptation of Mark Twain’s The Adam’s Family Chronicles.

Barney Frank and a number of other Dems voted “present.” Possibly, with so much important business left undone, they did not consider it a good use of Congress’ time.

Yes, but then I am a rationalist. It scares the shit out of the fundies.

It’s called No Child Left Behind, which Obama has not had time to address yet.

Scarey that our kids are being dumbed down.

Pretty good, probably. The Screwtape Letters is fairly conventional apologetics.

Now, if someone were to make Twain’s Letters to the Earth, I suspect it would let a fox loose in their mental henhouses.

yup )

Whatcha drinkin’ Dick?

IMO fundies only take the Bible literally when it’s convenient for ‘em. Vitter and Sanford’s crime is codified in Leviticus 20:10 while the criminalization of male homosexuality is codified in 20:13, three lines later. Both crimes carry the exact same sanction (death).

Think I read what you are referring to about 35 years ago. Involved an irreverent take on the Book of Genesis, yes?

Believe I will mosey. Nighters to all.

Frankly, I agree that it was a waste of time. If they had gone for full censure, maybe (though even there I don’t think so). AS Thers said over at his place the other day, there is too much fucking civility in our politcal discourse. Somebody needs to start calling bullshit bullshit and asshats asshats.

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal, goes the adage. But it doesn’t seem to apply to the foot soldiers of movement conservatism: fundamentalists and the desperately religious. Perhaps that’s why they find their leadership so enthralling despite their gross hypocrisy and failings. “That just makes them more human and needful of God’s mercy,” they say in excuse. It is a mindset and neediness I cannot understand.

The description of “facts” about Darwin from movieguide.org are patently false, but theirs is a reality built on faith, not facts, which may help explain their terrible susceptibility to being ruled by fear, a la Cheney, not competence and fair mindedness.

There’s a reason the Pilgrims, 17th century fundamentalists, left the known world for the unknown. Their modern-day brethren remain true to the same mold. It’s hard to imagine that God, if one could ask her, would find the extremism and abject rejection of the hear and now all to her liking.

Bushmill’s neat goes well as a night cap.

I was merely speculating that the title might leave them feeling a trifle conflicted.

‘night, RF

Not to mention wearing polyblend.

Talisker okay? I don’t have any Irish Water of Life…

I’d call myself a secular humanist. Not certain which ring of Hell that places me in.

You are correct. Night!

There’s nobody saying the film can’t be shown in the USA. They’re saying they can’t find anyone willing to invest in distribution of the film.

Maybe George Soros or Bill Gates could be convinced to finance this somehow, on an educational level.

yup – was my experience – ex#2, the fundy, was a pick and choose bible quoter

I will give it a shot. 8-)

The big one.

Lisa,
Exact question… I think you meant “opinion” instead of “option”
Thanks for the post.

Those seem to be getting rare. Can a foreign movie make a go of it here that way?

It’s in English….

Some well-known raconteur said somthing to the effect that if he had a choice, all the interesting people were going to hell.

Here ya’ go.

I’m going to guess they thought it was pointless. Democrats were outraged; Republicans rallied ’round their guy. If that was their motivation, I think they have a point.

fixed my dyslexia! thanks!

John 8:32
καὶ γνώσεσθε τὴν ἀλήθειαν καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια ἐλευθερώσει ὑμᾶς.
You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.

Thanks! Hits the spot nicely.

Sixth Circle (Heresy).

Re: Lisa Derrick @ 101

True, but are there explosions? If they’d called it Darwin: The Terminator it probably would have killed here. So to speak.

Just look at those C Street fuckers. They think they can do anything they want to cause they are “special” in gawd’s eyes.
jeesus…

Dennis Kucinich is liberal. I suspect he found the denunciation of one boorish redneck inadequate, a distraction, and an abuse of the House’s time. It achieves little, the man hasn’t the dignity to apologize when it and to whom it counts, and it distracts from the business of health care and holding political criminals of the past and/or current administration liable for their actions.

The denunciation is just fodder for the unthinking and the hateful and his re-election campaign. It would have done more good had the MSM pointed out the inconsistencies between his empty claims about Obama and the credible ones to be made against Bush. The lack of contemporary reaction from his GOP colleagues suggest several knew about his outburst in advance, which would make him a gofer, as well as a boorish redneck.

Time for me to toddle off. Theory seminar tomorrow, so I have to be more than usually coherent (even, or especially, if the theories aren’t always).

yeah.. and some of their interpretations are bizarre and go far beyond what’s in the text … like the C streeters arguing that God’s blessing of King David’s reign effectively allows American Christian politicians to break any Biblical precept and still remain in God’s good grace. Our the Southern Baptists who long argued that an obscure passage from Genesis justifies segregation of Blacks (the passage does nothing of the sort in any conceivable interpretation in any language).

Every time I see Wilson I think, “Can this man really be this stupid?” He doesn’t even seem adequately angry for a redneck. He just seems stupid.

C Street Fuckers? Sounds like a great name for a rock band.

It was an hour of House time, and making a point about manners is probably worth an hour. But I think they should have gone for censure.

Goodnight, DrDick.

Yes, but I prefer the second half. The truth is that I find a lot of the New Testament Greek kind of clunky but that is a beautifully turned phrase.

Yes but do these C Street Fuckers rock?
Nope.

‘night, Dick.

*waving g’nite to the leaving sleepyheads*

sorry.. we overlapped. Yeah.. there’s absolutely no credible Biblical justification for what those cultists believe… IMO, they intentionally pervert the whole concept of predestination for political gain.

Re: BargainCountertenor @ 116

But, what is the point? That the party that runs things can caution someone from the opposition if they feel like it? That’s what happened. If they’d kicked him out maybe someone would have gotten the point, but this? Seems to me like an hour the House will never get back.

Fundamentalism in any form really appalls me. I see it in some aspects of the pagan community, as well. Hardliners and so on. Granted you sorta want to not maybe comjure up the wrong thing, so there are certain rules–like in baking cakes and souffles fer instance–but in terms of faith, fundamentalism interferes with free thought, and well, we have that, and if God didnt want us to have it…

Re: marymccurnin @ 119

Even better. No reputation to live up to.

Great post Lisa, and great comments Pups.

Fun reading thru it all.

A SHAME one of the greatest scientists of all time can’t get his bio aired.

His story is an incredible one, start to finish.

All OVER the world, in leaky wooden boats with sails.

Simply incredible.

As to the fundie stuff, it’s been said above, better n what I could muster which would NOT be civil, or funny.

*G*

This film is controversial. But we are inundated with gratuitous nudity in practicaly every movie that comes to the theater and that isn’t controversial. Whatever. I’m sure there will be bootlegged copies in no time.

Re: Lisa Derrick @ 124

Oh, I don’t know. Look what trouble Michael Shermer got into for free thinking. (Warning: 6 minute YouTube)

We should have an FDL screening.
Buy you tickets here!

I think the distributors looking at the numbers went “only 39% of Americans even believe in evolution, it’s a period costume drama, anyway…maybe we should just go to DVD in US and avoid the hassle.”

The thing that galls me more than anything is how these people profress to be Christians but demostrate NOTHING of the sort in their actions. I wonder what bible they are reading.

I reckon it will go straight to video.

Thanks, I looked it up. It’s at the beginning of Canto 10:

La gente che per li sepolcri giace
potrebbesi veder? già son levati
tutt’i coperchi, e nessun guardia face».
E quelli a me: «Tutti saran serrati
quando di Iosafàt qui torneranno
coi corpi che là sù hanno lasciati.
Suo cimitero da questa parte hanno
con Epicuro tutti suoi seguaci,
che l’anima col corpo morta fanno.

Those who believe like Epicurus and his followers that the soul dies with the body lie in open sepulchers that will be closed up on Judgment Day.

I suppose there were two points. First, conduct that brings the House into disrepute is not acceptable. That is what he was rebuked for: he refused to apologize to his colleagues for his misbehavior. I think that censure would have made the point in a more appropriate way, but that’s me. Second, it forced the GoOP to circle their wagons around one of their batshit crazies.

Wilson’s speech to the House showed that he didn’t get the point at all. Of course, had he gotten the point, the rebuke would be unnecessary. I hope that Pelosi makes him stand in the well and listen to the rebuke being read, and I’d make a GoOP read the thing to him.

Like Ghandi said “It’s not your Christ I have problems with, it’s hs followers.”

There are people who really give Christianity a bad name and others who are shining examples of awesomeness.. Same in any faith. It’s really how the faith and belief can work on the individual whihc is why narrow minded fundamentalism is so soul destroying.

Yep. Sadly, corporatism runs rampant in the arts, too.

In reply to your #124:

Dear festing pals from Santa Cruz do Boys Weekend, in Nov.
Honor of the Vets Weekend.
At Fernwood Resort, in Big Sur.
Camping, cooking open wood fires, spitting, cussing, drinkin, smokin, fartin and such.
Guy stuff. AND Pickin, there IS a redemption. We/They pick a lot.

So, one time I went, there was a HUGE Pagan Gathering, just across a bridge from our campground.
We play golf, nine holes, with a nine iron and putter (two clubs only) and four of the ‘holes’ are across the bridge.

We had golf clubs, DFH’s we are, and they had: Viking Battle Armor, axes, broadswords, and gorgeous wimmins!!!

After many hard stares, a doobie or two came out, and it turns out we had as much in common with them as they did with us.

Hail Thor! *G*

I don’t know but it’s pretty clear that they read the same screed that the Taliban do. Some secret orcish tome
of douchebagerry I suspect.

They are all unhappy and won’t be happy until we are all unhappy, too./

*cough cough*

narrow mindedness isnt great for anyone, it destroys culture, minds, education.

What? ;-)

True story, copper. lol

Years ago I came up with the theory that the spread of religious fundamentalism around the globe was a reaction to the pace of change in societies and the sense of disempowerment and instability that change produced.

lol

Mt fave review of Cat in the Hat. I honestly dont know if it’s a joke or not, but this fundie rumor has been floating around for a while:

2 of 22 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars Satanic Undertones! Buyer beware!, Jun 2 2004
By “zackreligious” (Sac City, IA) – See all my reviews
I cannot believe that there are still parents out there who havent figured out the simple underlying theme to this book! Clearly the “cat in the hat” represents a satanic creature or symbol, whose sole purpose is the corruption and temptation of the children. He is DEMONIZING them! The fish represents reason and sensibility (God), and the author has made the cat satan… so look at this: Cats EAT fish! (…)Suess has basically said in his story that Satan will eventually devour all that is good and will corrupt all of his children while he watches helplessly from his glass prison. Parents BEWARE!

It’s all about fear. Fear makes people do come crazy shit.

I like the movieguides reasoning. I will try it. Adam Smith produced a quasi-labor theory of value, which David Ricardo turned into a pure labor theory of value, which Marx adopted in his analysis of the instahility of the capitalist system, leading to Marxim, Leninism and Stalinism. Therefore the mass murderer Adam Smith killed millions, and capitalism is evil.

Jesus of Nazareth caused centuries of religious war among Christian sects, Christians and Muslims, and killed millions. Therefore Jesus and Christianity is evil.

We are going to winnow out a lot of potential heroes. Orville Redenbacher is indirectly responsible for ‘popcorn butter lung’, that has killed hundreds. How many have died from Ronald McDonald’s fatal fatty fried and murder Macs? Thousands and thousands.

The history of the world is populated with evil murderers.

Pretty weak points, given that most of the GOP didn’t join in. They didn’t join in because they didn’t want to lose a House seat next year. So, basically everyone will make the usual excuses about lack of accountability and hypocrisy, and we’ll all know exactly what we knew before.

The House doesn’t speak up for people like us. It’s quite clear that it doesn’t and it won’t. What was really wrong with Wilson’s outburst was that it was insanely wrong and represents the views of bigots. For all I care, they can spend the day whacking each other with their canes and flinging turds at each other. The output is all I’m really interested in, and the output sucks. Decorum hasn’t made it good.

what is odd, even here, is that darwin’s most important work goes unmentioned….that was his work with plants. his genetic gardening so to speak.

the new york botanical garden did a show[and published a book] on that work last year. boffo!

what i have found odd, also, about the hostility to darwinian perspectives on genetic manipulation[sic] is how so much evidence of its influence is everywhere.

from the AKC and dog breeding. to the stud book of thoroughbred horses.

to the stud book[social register] of the eastern seaboard.

to name but a few of the most obvious.

but, in a very real sense, it is the manipulation of plant genetics where darwin demonstrated his insights with extraordinary immediacy.

the other day, borlaug expired. his work, in a very real sense, was the zenith of darwinian genetic manipulation of living entities.

either that or they can only be happy if they succeed in making everbody else unhappy. The problem is that one does not have to be literate to be a fundie. You just watch TV and listen to some ayatollah like Bauer or Dobson tell them that the Bible says that Obama is the antichrist or that it prohibits hurricane relief (actually argued after Katrina) or healthcare reform. They buy it and act accordingly, even if the ayatollah incite them to mob violence. If these people ever become a majority then this country will become just like the Iran.

Similar to stories about origin of Kris Kringle, Hansel And Gretel, etc.

Fantasy stuff with a STORY and MORAL PURPOSE, that’s cast as satanism.

Sigh, you can’t fix that, stoopud, ya know . . . *G*

Minds and parachutes work best when they are open.

Exactly. Never in the history of the republic has anyone ever done anything of the sort at a presidential address. I keep thinking what the hell kind of shit storm would be happening right now if it had been a democrat who had done that to bush and heaven knows he lied his ass off for years.

wow there’sa Harry Potter theme park opening at Universal studios Park in florida next year…

I said it was pretty weak tea. My preference would have been a motion to expel, followed by censure.

Don’t forget Einstein. He wrote that letter to FDR about the bomb. And a lot of the evil Einstein’s work would not have been possible without Newton’s and Leibniz’s discovery of calculus. Lots of high school and college students who take calculus courses sense there is something evil about it instinctively, especially around test time.

His party should have spanked him hard, but I guess they wee all proud and stuff of him–plus it made heaps in fundraising in his district. Perhpas he’ll be on the 2012 ticket…gagg

Oh, that ought to bring the Fundagelicals out in force!

If I could ask Rowling one question, it would be, “Why does the Wizarding world celebrate Christian holidays?”

wow there’sa Harry Potter theme park opening at Universal studios Park in florida next year…

Will it show the real Harry Potter, you know hog warts and all?

I have never read the books nor seen the movies, not have I have seen ET, Ghost and some other bog deal movies. But I think Rosemary’s Baby is a great comedy.

I read somewhere (ABQ paper, probably) that the GoOP leadership told him he had to apologize to the House, and he said, “No, not really.” And they said, “Oh, that’s different. Never mind.”

Whoa. I don’t know if that’s straight or satire.

But I will say the debbil doesn’t strike me as the type who stays and cleans everything up.

Jesus was a social liberal and a theological conservative.

Fundagelicals are socially conservative and theologically liberal.

The fundagelicals are the antithesis to Jesus Christ (would that make them collectively the anti-Christ?).

They will abridge and adapt the Bible to fit their own narrow minded, xenophobic, and often racist worldview. That is theological liberalism.

To proclaim “disbelief” in evolution is about as enlightened as proclaiming disbelief in gravity, sub atomic particles, and germs. For Christ’s sake this is the 21st Century, not the 1st! Why do we give a shiite what these moronic cousin loving imbeciles believe?

It’s actually a pretty good version of Campbell’s Hero’s Journey. A bit long-winded, perhaps, but it’s pretty good. I can see myself teaching mythology and using HP as the base sample, because it’s something the kids are likely to be very familiar with.

And that’s why I don’t teach Sunday School.

Trying to trick you into thinking he’s a nice guy! bouwhahahahaah

Actually, if you aren’t caught up in it in CinemaScope, The Exorcist is almost as good a send-up of itself as the Zucker Bros Repossessed. At least, I think it was the Zucker boys who did that one.

Because sadly they are trying to bring about the end of the world to prove they are right and correct. Messianic Islam has the same basic idea–that the Madhi will come. Same with Messianic Judiasm.

there’sa desire for cleansing and a New Way, and a leader so we just dont have to think–and ot believe some are choosen.

And when I was at Berkeley I got into a dicussion wiht some Revolutionary Communist Youthers who said” Well there will be a huge upheaval when the revolution comes and then the Glorious Worker will lead us to a workers Utopian society.”

I was um…speechless

The Damien Series, movie wise. Just sayin . . .

Although, as an easily impressioned teen, Rosemary’s Baby was at the top of the charts for me.

Comedy now? Maybe. Certainly NOT then!!! lol

I read some of the HP in French. Hogwarts was Poulard I think and Snape for some reason was called Rogue. Everyone else had pretty much the same names.

Crazed is as crazed believes.

Ain’t the human experiment a grand ideal to watch as it moves along . . . *G*

I was um…speechless

There was always a lot of Christian millennialism in how Marxism was sold to the masses.

Poppies by any other name would still seduce the masses…

Lisa,
You got it exactly right: fundamentalism, in any form, is about power not religion. The fundamentalists interpose themselves between God and the rest of humanity. They are the self appointed gate keepers to the throne of God. To get to God, you must go through them. If they do not approve of the Other – which they never do – the Other cannot achieve salvation. Thus, theirs alone is the kingdom of heaven.

I don’t know about you, but when someone anoints themselves with such a power trip, I think that I am going to need to see some stone tablets written by the hand of God that back up their claims.

Fundamentalism of any stripe is the enemy of democracy, equality, and human rights in general. Fundamentalism exists solely to exclude, segregate, ostracize, and prejudge non-believers. By doing so the fundamentalists are proven – in their own eyes – to be more worthy and holy.

Damn them all and go to hell.

Why do we give a shiite what these moronic cousin loving imbeciles believe?

Because religion has to be “respected”. Look at the crap Dawkins and Dennett get for their mild criticisms of the illogic of religion. Call the sky green and the grass blue and everyone will think you’re crazy. Say that this is the belief of your religion, and lots of people will feel the need to respect it, even though it makes no more sense.

here here

Rogue? That’s odd… how does Poulard translate to Anglais?

ahh..Suzanne is up on mothership! Night all. I am off to roast a goat!

Don’t forget the BBQ sauce!

That’s true, but there’s also a strong element of fear in most fundamentalist movements. It’s not an accident that they tend to spring up during times of cultural upheaval.

It’s a very hot sauce….

I don’t give a shit if they want to believe that they are descended from the Great Radish In The Sky, we should not, must not degrade our educational standards to mollify their delicate sensibilities.

We’ve always catered to these buffoons, but we have had definite times when we seem to be even more willing to appease them than others. The most recent wave was in the early ’70s and ’80s as evangelicals started to become overtly political. The systematically began taking over local school boards and intentionally gutted science curricula to remove, or at least water down, any mention of evolution or Darwinism. They didn’t have the slightest idea what evolution actually was, they just knew that is was bad.

How the hell to we expect to field scientists, doctors, and researchers capable of fighting biological weapons of mass destruction, pandemic disease, and killers such as cancer and Alzheimer’s if their science education begins as “facts optional?” They live in a world where they can choose to disbelieve evolution, because after all, it is a theory.

They possess not the slightest knowledge of the definition of the word “theory” in the scientific context. Because of an accident of the English language, they assume that any other “theory” is as valid as evolution.

We appease these asshats to the detriment of our democracy and our very security. They are misanthropic peawits who choose to be willfully ignorant as a sign of piety. If given power, they are dangerous.

yep. I’m convinced that if you deleted all the names from a copy of the Gospels and asked the fundies which figure they most respect, they’d pick Pilate. ’cause he had the power.

Poux de lard = lice of bacon

Both of Twain’s works would likely be a lot more incendiery than “Religulous”.

BTW I think that Creation might be a bit more controversial than we might realize. It’s not simply about evolution, but about [gasp] “atheism”. If CD reached the conclusion that “Well, God ultimately did it all through evolution” then many groups might embrace it. But the film seems to make the point that Darwin became an atheist (although this might still be debated…some suspect he became an agnostic but utterly disgusted with conventional religion…so he simply tried to avoid discussions of it). If he was an atheist he was certainly not a “proslytizing” one. His friend Thomas Henry Huxley, though, was championing agnosticism with a fervor.

“. . . and prejudge non-believers. . . “

The only part I disagree with. For a minor reason. *G*

And you lay the rest out to the bone. Nicely done, hoss.

It’s power.

Has NOTHING to do about pre-judging non-believers, that’s a tactic to WIELD the power.

SO, I admit, I just nitpicked . . . my bad. Loved the comment.

Movies about Issac Newton should be shelved as well, because Gravity is a left wing kook theory, and American’s against the “theory” of Gravity would find such a film unsettling.

I think that the fear they feel is due to a vague sense of unease, a kind of proto-cognitive dissonance. I say “proto”, because the operative part of that phenomenon, cognition, is something with which they are entirely unfamiliar – and willfully so. While they are loathe to express outright doubt, they can be unsettled by ideas which threaten the stability of their simplified dualistic view of all creation.

That’s why a black president is such a threat to the most racist of the fundamentalists; that is why they are working to defeat him, to insure that he does not succeed. For if a black man is successful as president, their grand theories about the inferiority of non-whites is exposed as the bigoted nonsense that it actually is. If Obama turns out to be an effective president, their whole edifice that constitutes their worldview crumbles before their eyes.

That Christian extremism and racism go hand in hand in this country is well documented. They are not interested in and will not respond to debate. They must be exposed and taken down like the Klan was largely dismantled by the Southern Poverty Law Center. They are a greater threat to our democracy than Al Qaeda ever was.

Darwin’s life is extraordinarily well documented: besides his own autobiography, we’ve got much of his correspondence, his many books and papers, and a host of contemporary accounts of his life and character. The point is one can get to know this guy, and it’s amazing that such a thoroughly humane and admirable man gets endlessly vilified out of religious prejudice. Come to think of it, though, it may be that the bigots are smart to keep their flock from getting to know Darwin as a person. It would be harder to hate him then or to buy the malicious libel that he was some sort of Nazi and racist instead of an upstanding English liberal and lifelong enemy of slavery.

Larue,
My use of the term “pre-judge” probably indicates less true belief on the fundamentalists’ part than you might suspect. I think that they believe that they believe, but their “faith” is a foot wide and an inch deep. Fundamentalists tend to be remarkably ignorant about the Bible they proclaim to revere. They may have undertaken the memorization of verses, but tend to be very ignorant about Biblical history, scholarship, and any serious exegesis of any Biblical text.

They often are part of cults of personality surrounding a particularly charismatic authority figure. They worship power and respond to power, at least to power that they respect.

The BBC had a swathe of Darwin programmes — on radio and television — to commemorate the 150th anniversary of The Origin of Species.

Oh, and he’s on the £10 note. One of which I keep in my wallet, partly so that I can pay for things next time I go home, but mainly because having Darwin on money makes me happy.

I am a Catholic, a conservative, an Independent, and can reconcile Darwin’s theory with my faith. Even if I could not do that is not a reason for me to want to ban the showing of this film from anyone who wants to see it. I assume the film is factually accurate and don’t understand why any film that is factually accurate should be banned in a free society.

If there are scenes that are inappropriate for young children then the film should be rated not banned.

People who have faith are not necessarilary loons or crazy. In fact I believe that having taught at the college level that I do have some ability to learn and research facts for myself.

I believe that race is the convenient handle for those who support left wing ideas pull when they have no cogent answers for well articulated questions. Mainstream America is beginning to take being called a racist like the people in the children’s story took the Boy Who Cried Woof. They are weary of the term and it does not bother them any longer. That card has been played so many times it is worn out and trite.

Are there Racist whites, absolutely. Are there racist blacks, absolutely. Are their racists of all religions and ethnic backgrounds, absolutely. Are their racist atheists or agnostics, absolutely. Does painting the entirety of all of the groups mentioned above make all of them racist, absolutely not. I believe if you do that it is called either stereotyping or ethnic profiling.

TexasReader,
Are you kidding? Have you scanned the signs present at any of the teabagger events? There are overt racist signs and images aplenty. The race baiting of FauxNews is blatant and impossible to ignore. These have all been escalations from the shockingly racist imagery we saw during thick and fast at McCain/Palin rallies, especially those with just Palin.

How about these images, are they racist?
- Obamabucks mock welfare checks with watermelons, fried chicken, and Kool-Aid
- Obama as a witch doctor, replete with bone in nose
- images of the new White House watermelon patch
- references to the President’s “big red lips”
- the collection of presidential photos, with two white eyes in the darkness for President Obama
- the sign “The zoo has an African lion, We have a lyin’ African” from the recent 9/12 gathering
- the gorilla references to both President Obama and the First Lady
- the comments about Malia Obama “A typical street whore.” “Ghetto street trash.” “Wonder when she will get her first abortion.” on conservative website The Free Republic
- Limbaugh and Gingrich referring to Justice Sotomayor as “racist” (they were denounced by Tex. Sen. Cornyn)
- how about Rep. Wilson’s racist past? (member Sons of the Confederacy, bad mouthed Strom Thurmond’s secret biracial daughter after Thurmond’s family acknowledged her, defended virulent racist friend as a great patriot)

Are those enough evidence of racism? How about Frank Shaeffer, one of the founders of evangelical conservatism, and his take on Republican racism during last year’s campaign?:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..30200.html

You rhetorically ask, “are there racist blacks?” Show me any evidence of liberal or Democratic bigotry that even comes remotely close to the kind of overt conservative Republican racism that I have cited above. Hell, show me ANY evidence of liberals engaging in this anti-American crap.

How much evidence of racism do you require before you admit that the most conservative Republicans in this nation are knee deep in racists? Shall we wait until your teabagger pals start lynching people? Or is cross burning enough? Honestly, if we don’t stop this crap, that is exactly where it will lead.

These folks are pretty damn top heavy with racists and when the inevitable violence occurs, those on your side who have done nothing to denounce these malevolent thugs will bear a share of the blame.

Open your damn eyes.

Won’t play in the United States? Large swaths of the United States and the entire Republican Party suffer from terminal ignorance.

Content yourselves with seeing the Baader-Meinhoff film, fascinating and frightening start to finish.

This is the sort of thing that proves evolution is true. Certain species die out as a result of not being able to adapt. There appear to be aspects of the human being that can not be explained in any way except by using words, concepts, facts and proof. Since 40 or so percent of us can’t understand these concepts, and another 20 aren’t sure even though they understand the science, it leaves a minority of humans capable of moving about with thought and rational behavior.
There’s the proof. Only some of us are able to understand a simple concept involving progeny compared to the remainder of the world that is only concerned about progeny.

Depends on what kind of evangelical. Emergent Church movements/Progressive Evangelicals (yes they exist) are pro-stem cell.

I couldn’t care less about some Darwin movie. Let’s be honest- the problems facing the acceptance/understanding of evolution in this country are not going to be resolved by one film, and truth is, I don’t particularly give a shit about Darwin himself- he’s not some saint of science, he just figured out evolution. Let’s talk about Evolution, not Darwin.

Oddly enough, Darwin would agree with you. He hated the idea of biography, and was himself a shy, retiring man. Still, he knew he had become an icon by the end of his life. He also knew that the battle to win over adherents to his views would take a long time. He urged patience on his followers who wanted to to build a militant Athiest league (though he’d have them over for dinner).

The story of Annie is a heart-breaking one. Darwin nursed his daughter through a horrifying fatal illness, his wife, Emma, being laid up in the final stages of pregnancy. His daughter is buried in the Malvern Hills, a rare outcrop in western England from which one can look out over the flat countryside, towards the Cotswolds and beyond.

For years, Darwin and his wife could not bring themselves to visit the grave. When they finally did, during a particularly terrible health and emotional crisis fifteen years later, it helped the man break through his stifled grief, and give him strength to return to his work and writings post-Origin, as he was worn down with the defense of himself and his views.

No one knows for sure when Darwin lost his faith in the Anglican Church. It’s not clear how far he ever moved past agnosticism. The theory that he lost his faith after the death of his daughter comes from a book by Darwin scholar, Randal Keynes. Surely there were many contributory factors. When Darwin left on the Beagle journey at age 24, he believed he would become a clergyman. By the end of his voyage, where he saw not only geological and biological phenomena that helped shape him into an evolutionist, but also slavery, coups, and close-up the wars of extermination against native South American populations, he had decided in a career as a scientist (actually, a geologist, at that point).

The suppression of this movie is an outrage. It would certainly help humanize Darwin, whom the religious right want to demonize and make pariah. You cannot at this point in time separate Darwin from the issue of evolution. Years after his death he remains a symbol not only of the fact of evolution, but of courage and truth-telling, or belief in the powers of reason to subdue those of superstition and destructive passions.

“”It would be a great shame if those with religious convictions spurned the film out of hand as they will find it even-handed and wise.”"

I’m a religious person who has never had any trouble over Darwin or Evolution. I don’t see any conflict between faith and science, because I don’t expect God to tell me how he does His creating.

I suspect that my view has been more the norm among religious since Darwin’s day than not. In England, Darwin’s contemporary Cardinal Neuman had no problems with the new theory. The outrage came from the so-called Liberal Anglicans who were jockeying for power in the English Church at the time and using a family-values platform as their starting point.

The objection to Darwin is thus not a religious issue at all. It arises with political people that see religion as a tool, as an entree to power. These people want their god to be an inside source that tells them the secret to success, wealth, and dominion. They demand dead certainties, just like they’d expect from their brokers and their bookies. Needless to say, they feel cheated a lot of the time.

Great remark EDrP…I got a good laugh, thanks!

Perhaps if the movie showed Darwin scourging himself or others this film would have a chance. Various little whips for the wide variety of finches.

Honestly though, as a person who has always believed that evolution is a fact, this movie would not do well in American theaters. Even Michael Moore understands that there has to be some suspense as the story unfolds. If they redid it with big stars and animation from Pixar it would still tank at the Multiplex. Americans don’t go to theaters to learn, they go to be entertained. The more unbelievable the story’s use of believable special effects the better it will do. This sounds like a made for television product.

This isn’t about belief this is about what the theater goers will watch. Release it to DVD and move on. I know I’d like to rent it.

Exactly. I’m a Christian evolutionist, because I think evolution’s beautiful- God’s way of showing us that we all start out small and become something grand. It’s wonderful.

But of course no one sees it that way. (sigh) This country is run by IDIOTS!

Umm, no. I hate to break it to you, but a story about how figuring out evolution makes you reject religion- which is what this story, frankly, is- will not help at all. It just reinforces the barrier- Evolution=No Religion.

Which is bullshit.

The repeated calls of religion as superstition- which is frankly ridiculous if you look at its history and contributions to the world- is a New Atheist perspective that isn’t going to do anyone any good. We should be over this, instead of trying to beat each other to death with it.

As for Darwin himself, tough breaks, poor guy. Feel bad for him- there’s some stuff that’s just vicious.

It is superstition to believe that the natural processes of the world are not amenable to scientific examination.

Sorry. That’s what it is. There’s plenty of room for religion in that. Let’s not fool ourselves. I never called religion superstition. So I’ve made it clear what the latter is, and it is on this point that the revolution in the natural sciences stands… or falls.

And btw, how do you know what the movie is about? Have you seen it? The trailer makes it look like a biopic. Did Emma Darwin worry about her husband’s soul? Yes, and anyone who wants can read the letters about it between them. Did Darwin worry that his theory might offend certain people’s beliefs? He did, and in fact, that happened.

Would anyone complain if there were a movie made about Galileo and his struggles with the Church? Such a movie has been made, and it showed in the United States.

If you don’t want to see the movie, because it’s “bullshit”, reinforcing — so you say — Evolution=No Religion, then don’t go. There are millions of us who would greatly enjoy seeing this film. Your take on the human drama presented — parents’ loss of beloved child — is repeated endlessly in movies and TV melodramas. Your animus towards Darwin (”tough breaks, poor guy… there’s some stuff that’s just vicious”), because he had the misfortune to endure such a tragedy, is curious, and unfortunate.