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	<title>Comments on: Obama Denies Same-Sex Health Benefits to Federal Workers</title>
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	<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/</link>
	<description>Just another Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Cellar47</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4521</link>
		<dc:creator>Cellar47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4521</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The only demagogury is coming from President Barry Prejean.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’s a lying sack of shit, Phoenix Woman, and there’s no two ways about it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The real story is he knows how easy it is to play the LBGT “leadership.” They fall over on a faint and kiss the feet of ANYONE who claims to like them. The fac thjat they’ll turn right around and stab us all in the back — or in Barry’s case the front — isrigorously ignored&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only demagogury is coming from President Barry Prejean.</p>
<p>He’s a lying sack of shit, Phoenix Woman, and there’s no two ways about it.</p>
<p>The real story is he knows how easy it is to play the LBGT “leadership.” They fall over on a faint and kiss the feet of ANYONE who claims to like them. The fac thjat they’ll turn right around and stab us all in the back — or in Barry’s case the front — isrigorously ignored</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4520</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4520</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As for the “unnamed source” Pam Spaulding cites from the NYT:  That’s funny, because this benefit package has been in the works for a while, pretty much ever since Berry was picked to run OPM; it took that long to try and figure out just how much they could do without breaking the law, meaning DOMA (which again, Congress will have to repeal as 1) the Smelt case won’t do it and 2) even a strong case like the Massachusetts case will have a tough time in the Roberts USSC).  Obama may have moved up the timing to try and calm down the people Jon Aravosis stirred up, but it was coming out soon anyway.  (By the way, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bilerico.com/2009/06/thoughts_on_the_doj_doma_brief.php#comment-186752&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here’s what a prominent GLBT writer has to say about Aravosis’ demagoguing this issue.&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the “unnamed source” Pam Spaulding cites from the NYT:  That’s funny, because this benefit package has been in the works for a while, pretty much ever since Berry was picked to run OPM; it took that long to try and figure out just how much they could do without breaking the law, meaning DOMA (which again, Congress will have to repeal as 1) the Smelt case won’t do it and 2) even a strong case like the Massachusetts case will have a tough time in the Roberts USSC).  Obama may have moved up the timing to try and calm down the people Jon Aravosis stirred up, but it was coming out soon anyway.  (By the way, <a href="http://www.bilerico.com/2009/06/thoughts_on_the_doj_doma_brief.php#comment-186752" rel="nofollow">here’s what a prominent GLBT writer has to say about Aravosis’ demagoguing this issue.</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: DWilson</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4517</link>
		<dc:creator>DWilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4517</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My final words on this issue will be; Persons with OCD/Obsessive Compulsive Disorder are comfortable only when their fixation is unchallenged and become very distraught when factual reality conflicts with their cozy little habitat of disinformation and falsehoods.&lt;br /&gt;
The primary instance occurred when “comfort” was demonstrated with a Black Gay Male stage performer that fictitiously claimed that Jesus “cured” him from his Homosexuality. The present discourse came about as Revenge upon the Gay response to this issue of converting gays into straights. Remember that OCD people are exceptionally vengeful. Their mentality is one of perfection from inside their boxes.&lt;br /&gt;
This is reality:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....122106.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My final words on this issue will be; Persons with OCD/Obsessive Compulsive Disorder are comfortable only when their fixation is unchallenged and become very distraught when factual reality conflicts with their cozy little habitat of disinformation and falsehoods.<br />
The primary instance occurred when “comfort” was demonstrated with a Black Gay Male stage performer that fictitiously claimed that Jesus “cured” him from his Homosexuality. The present discourse came about as Revenge upon the Gay response to this issue of converting gays into straights. Remember that OCD people are exceptionally vengeful. Their mentality is one of perfection from inside their boxes.<br />
This is reality:<br /><a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/re&#8230;..122106.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4516</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4516</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;1) The DoJ is compelled to defend DOMA as it’s the law of the land. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2) As long as DOMA is in place, possible benefits are limited.  Get rid of DOMA, the limits go away.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3) The best way to end DOMA is through the Congress, as both Laurence Tribe and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid90371.asp?page=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OPM’s John Berry&lt;/a&gt; have stated.  Why?  Because, as Tribe notes, you don’t want a Supreme Court run by John Roberts deciding this thing:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;     As someone who wants to see DOMA dismantled and invalidated, I would love it if this ninth circuit case would evaporate into the ether.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    Even though I personally believe that DOMA is unconstitutional, I think that this particular lawsuit is very vulnerable; it’s not anywhere near as strong as the one that was brought in the federal district court in Massachusetts [a suit filed by Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders].&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    In an environment where the Supreme Court is still quite conservative, what makes a suit a strong one is that it finds a point of entry in which it’s possible to invalidate a law in a number of its applications by using more of a scalpel that might appeal to five justices rather than a bludgeon that will almost certainly ask more of the court than it is willing to do.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    What’s strong about the Massachusetts case is that these are concrete situations of people who are legally married under the laws of states like Massachusetts or Vermont, and who are being discriminated against by the federal government with respect to federal benefits simply because they are same-sex couples. There’s no other difference between them and other couples in that state, and the court could agree with that without accepting any of the broader theories advanced in the [Smelt] lawsuit in the central district of California, which is basically a bet-the-farm lawsuit that almost dares a conservative Supreme Court to slap it down.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    […]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    There are ways for the president to get rid of DOMA. He can advocate for its repeal, he can eventually urge the solicitor general to join in a more surgical attack, but he certainly isn’t obliged to go along with every plaintiff who brings a lawsuit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    The important point here is that the solicitor general traditionally seeks to dismiss lawsuits against federal laws whenever there is a plausible basis to do it. A lot of the outcry about the administration’s position doesn’t take that institutional reality into account. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4) The people most loudly demagoguing the DoJ’s DOMA brief — and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bilerico.com/2009/06/thoughts_on_the_doj_doma_brief.php#comment-186752&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;at least one gay activist who dislikes the brief isn’t exactly fond of how it’s being demagogued&lt;/a&gt; — seem to be confusing or (deliberately?) conflating a DoJ lawyer’s somewhat lazy cites of case law — cites that were likely used in this brief simply because &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.domawatch.org/cases/11thcircuit/wilsonvake/20040927_def_dismiss_memo.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;they were used in prior DoJ briefs responding to prior DOMA challenges&lt;/a&gt; — with OMGOMGOBAMAHATEZTEHGHEYZZZ!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) The DoJ is compelled to defend DOMA as it’s the law of the land. </p>
<p>2) As long as DOMA is in place, possible benefits are limited.  Get rid of DOMA, the limits go away.</p>
<p>3) The best way to end DOMA is through the Congress, as both Laurence Tribe and <a href="http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid90371.asp?page=2" rel="nofollow">OPM’s John Berry</a> have stated.  Why?  Because, as Tribe notes, you don’t want a Supreme Court run by John Roberts deciding this thing:</p>
<blockquote><p>     As someone who wants to see DOMA dismantled and invalidated, I would love it if this ninth circuit case would evaporate into the ether.</p>
<p>    Even though I personally believe that DOMA is unconstitutional, I think that this particular lawsuit is very vulnerable; it’s not anywhere near as strong as the one that was brought in the federal district court in Massachusetts [a suit filed by Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders].</p>
<p>    In an environment where the Supreme Court is still quite conservative, what makes a suit a strong one is that it finds a point of entry in which it’s possible to invalidate a law in a number of its applications by using more of a scalpel that might appeal to five justices rather than a bludgeon that will almost certainly ask more of the court than it is willing to do.</p>
<p>    What’s strong about the Massachusetts case is that these are concrete situations of people who are legally married under the laws of states like Massachusetts or Vermont, and who are being discriminated against by the federal government with respect to federal benefits simply because they are same-sex couples. There’s no other difference between them and other couples in that state, and the court could agree with that without accepting any of the broader theories advanced in the [Smelt] lawsuit in the central district of California, which is basically a bet-the-farm lawsuit that almost dares a conservative Supreme Court to slap it down.</p>
<p>    […]</p>
<p>    There are ways for the president to get rid of DOMA. He can advocate for its repeal, he can eventually urge the solicitor general to join in a more surgical attack, but he certainly isn’t obliged to go along with every plaintiff who brings a lawsuit.</p>
<p>    The important point here is that the solicitor general traditionally seeks to dismiss lawsuits against federal laws whenever there is a plausible basis to do it. A lot of the outcry about the administration’s position doesn’t take that institutional reality into account. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>4) The people most loudly demagoguing the DoJ’s DOMA brief — and <a href="http://www.bilerico.com/2009/06/thoughts_on_the_doj_doma_brief.php#comment-186752" rel="nofollow">at least one gay activist who dislikes the brief isn’t exactly fond of how it’s being demagogued</a> — seem to be confusing or (deliberately?) conflating a DoJ lawyer’s somewhat lazy cites of case law — cites that were likely used in this brief simply because <a href="http://www.domawatch.org/cases/11thcircuit/wilsonvake/20040927_def_dismiss_memo.pdf" rel="nofollow">they were used in prior DoJ briefs responding to prior DOMA challenges</a> — with OMGOMGOBAMAHATEZTEHGHEYZZZ!!!</p>
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		<title>By: mack</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4515</link>
		<dc:creator>mack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;So, does this mean same sex dates are allowed at the White House Christmas Party, but must find their own health care?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, does this mean same sex dates are allowed at the White House Christmas Party, but must find their own health care?</p>
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		<title>By: cwarddc</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4514</link>
		<dc:creator>cwarddc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4514</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That still doesn’t change the fact that Obama has not said ONE WORD about it!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That still doesn’t change the fact that Obama has not said ONE WORD about it!</p>
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		<title>By: Millineryman</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4513</link>
		<dc:creator>Millineryman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:08:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4513</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s a good thing I have a fierce advocate in the White House. /s A new level of pathetic gestures in my book.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s a good thing I have a fierce advocate in the White House. /s A new level of pathetic gestures in my book.</p>
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		<title>By: dotsright</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4512</link>
		<dc:creator>dotsright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4512</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Everyone is looking at the Whitehouse but no one is looking at DOJ. The administration reapplied the strictures of limited political interference between Whitehouse and DOJ as they should have.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;DOJ presented a defense of DOMA that had an egregious anti-gay bias. Who wrote and presented this brief? It could have been one of those Liberty U. grads hand picked by Monica Goodling by the sound of the brief. It was up to Eric Holder and the powers that be at the DOJ to know what was going to be presented in court. FAIL.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Eric Holder’s tenure at DOJ does not have a lot going for it so far and now he has embarassed the administration yet again.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone is looking at the Whitehouse but no one is looking at DOJ. The administration reapplied the strictures of limited political interference between Whitehouse and DOJ as they should have.</p>
<p>DOJ presented a defense of DOMA that had an egregious anti-gay bias. Who wrote and presented this brief? It could have been one of those Liberty U. grads hand picked by Monica Goodling by the sound of the brief. It was up to Eric Holder and the powers that be at the DOJ to know what was going to be presented in court. FAIL.</p>
<p>Eric Holder’s tenure at DOJ does not have a lot going for it so far and now he has embarassed the administration yet again.</p>
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		<title>By: Cellar47</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4511</link>
		<dc:creator>Cellar47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4511</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SING OUT LOUISE!!!!!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>SING OUT LOUISE!!!!!</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Cellar47</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4510</link>
		<dc:creator>Cellar47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2009/06/17/obama-denies-same-sex-health-benefits-to-federal-workers/#comment-4510</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;He’s a bigot. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What do you need? Flash cards?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He’s a bigot. </p>
<p>What do you need? Flash cards?</p>
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