I’m just tired of being thrown under the bus.

I do realize any media outlet would’ve have followed what the PIC said, but I’ve had enough. Maybe the media meeds to see throwing us under has it consequences too.

Thanks again for all your support Lisa.

Why should anyone be offended by the lack of televised prayer?

The offense can be corrected by not televising Dick Warren’s Trained Seal Act or by adding another televised performance by Robinson.

It’s their reason for not televising it that offends us. Do you think they’ll keep Rev. Warren’s invocation “as part of the pre-show”?

Thanks for going after this, Lisa. We’ll win in the end, but we’ll have to drag the neanderthals kicking and screaming every step of the way.

If the presidential inaugural committee made asked HBO to cut the speech, it’s so offensive I don’t know where to begin. And IMHO the speech was a good one.

Well, the bishop meant it to be inclusive and secular. And I think he did a good job at that. It would have made a good anecdote to Billy Graham Inc.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Lisa Derrick and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

OK, unless the Obama folks come out soon with a denial, it’s time ta take the gloves off on this issue and make a BIG stink in the bloggosphere for the next 24 hours…most folks, like myself were sooooo enthralled yesterday and so happy that some lips were bein’ used ta pay service to progressive values that Bishop Robinson didn’t cross our minds. Time ta give a little of the hype for tomorrow a bit of a “haircut” if ya catch my drift.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, HE NEEDS US AS MUCH AS WE NEED HIM!!

See….. so tired of people jumping to the conclusion it is always the evil corporation and not someone else……. Tried to express this in the last thread. My boyfriend has worked in TV for over 25 years either as the TV engineer or the technical manager for mobile TV productions from HS football, Olympics to the the Academy Awards.

Before everyone jumps to conclusions, we need to get facts and then address who was responsible for the exclusion.

Anyway MLK was a religious man. But apparently his speeches resonated all over the world. It’s the difference between speaking to a tiny bigoted Warrenesque community and offering spiritual assistance for the hard road ahead to all.

OT -

Last fall , my friend Tony Greer nearly lost the tips of two of his fingers. He was moving some stuff in his shop, and a steel table base fell over, and nearly guillotined them off at the nail line.
Like a lot of the people who are self-employed, he had no insurance.
He worked out a payment plan , and to meet these obligations he’s been making Geissler Plasma Tube art pieces.
One a week. Every Sunday he has new one up on Ebay . Here’s the lastest -

Xenon Geissler Plasma Tube w/ 3 Electrodes on Wood Base
Steampunk style Retro-Electrical Experimental Apparatus

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xenon-Geis…..dZViewItem

Citizen macaquerman:

Jesus, Brother macaquerperson, yer shit is gettin jest a bit old…why would folks here at FDL NOT be concerned about the conscious decision not to televise a prayer? Please pray tell…do ya think progressive folks don’t like prayers or do ya think progressive folks don’t like religious prayers or do ya think that folks here a FDL are too stupid ta see thru yer schitk?

WE’VE BEEN SCREWED WITH OUT LUBE!

Latest FaBlog: Barack Obama’s Structuring Absence

Language could be less harsh. But there’s something apropos addressing this issue on a MLK jr. day, him being celebrated by the progressive community and a clergyman to boot.

In all fairness, shouldn’t some concept of equal time apply, and therefore Wingnut Rick should be deleted from the HBO broadcast as well? I’ll happily do without seeing the Hon. Rt. Rev. Gene Robinson if I do not have to see Wingnut Ayatollah Rick.

This is hideous if true.

I certainly hope that no one would think to include Warren in any televised ceremony.
If Robinson was excluded for his sexual conduct, rather than because people prefer to hear music to Christian prayer,that might be upsetting.

He does nice work.

I didn’t see any prayers on the tele yesterday. Did I miss some or were they all not aired by HBO?

If no prayers were aired.. I don’t see what the big deal is.

This week is about all of us and our constitution, isn’t it? Isn’t the constitution what caused our election and the only thing Obama will take an oath to protect and defend?

Just sent to Obama site:

“Bishop Robinson’s exclusion from the program you put on was a stuped and venial decision.

I trust that the same decision will be made for the bigot Rick Warren.

Just more evidence that you are a pandering politician rather than a moral leader.”

HBO probably will not broadcast Warren. HBO was contracted for the concert. You might check your listings but from the HBO website they are doing regular programing.

It will be Network TV, Cable and CSPAN who show the Inauguration. What is shown will be up to each network and the blather from the taking heads.

Dear NFT, try not to freak out on an hourly basis. It can’t be healthful for you or anyone else.
If you want to watch prayer services instead of musical performances, I’m not dismayed at your choice. I do assume that people who would identify themselves as progressive would prefer music.

I like your take on this, ES. I’m going to reserve judgment and see how the whole piece is served up.

Um, just saying to no one in particular, on this momentous weekend, emotions are going to run high. Let’s allow everyone to feel what they are feeling and not invalidate anyone’s experience. Unity in diversity and all that. Peace.

I don’t really have an issue with this exclusion then. I’d like to see the other nets treat Wingnut Rick the same way, though. This is a secular country, and presidents are not supposed to be ordained by God. If the president wants to say “so help me God” at the end of his oath, and if that would personally help him to be a better president, I’m fine with that, but broadcasting a long series of ecclesiastical endorsements is, IMO, less than appropriate. What would Thomas Jefferson have said?

What sexual conduct? You make it sound like he’s groping peoples arses, and not in a steady relationship. And lets face it, if this were Billy Graham Inc., he would be treated as the rockstar, by Republicans and groping dems as well.

Hi sharkbabe!

Citizen macaquerman:

Your concern for my health is as phony as the $3 bill you been carryin in yer wallet and I must say if I gotta rely on someone like you for my medical support I’d rather have heart disease…why would you think that “progressives” would rather listen ta music, I find your understandin’ of progressive values as phony as yer concern for other people’s health.

Help me out here because I feel like I’m talking to myself…. or invisible again. Someone planned the concert, there was a tight schedule jammed packed with talent. The Obama team contracted with HBO for X amount of TV time to broadcast the event. HBO was just the network.

How about this…. the NFL contacts with ESPN to broadcast their games plus Faux & ABC which is part of ESPN. ESPN hires the TV crews and does the show to the NFL specifications.

People are making this a social emotional issue when it was a business contract. Ya someone screwed up but it wasn’t dis’ing a group of people…..

I assumed that Warren wasn’t televised for the simple reason that prayer isn’t the best way for HBO to generate revenue. I have watched a bunch of things on HBO and none of them seemed designed to offer spiritual comfort.

Psst – Robinson, not Warren.

Hey good point. Interesting that so many sports broadcasts exclude the national anthem. I understand why they don’t expend air time on it, and it’s still performed live anyway. Hmmm. I hope there is equal treatment and it’s a business arrangement. That’s why I’m going to wait and see. But ol’ Rick loves the secular limelight!

Not sure I understand all the contractual issues. BUt if someone screwed up… and no prayers received special dispensation, intentionally or otherwise, I really don’t see the problem.

If the gay preacher said his prayer, wonderful! Honor that! Let’s post the YouTube for all to see.

Don’t let Rick Warren’s ways destroy everything even when he’s nowhere to be found. Keep our eye on the truly divisive ball.

I for one enjoyed and sincerely appreciate what HBO and those who paid HBO did yesterday.

Makes sense to me. Personally, I never thought that a prayer was an appropriate part of an event like yesterday’s anyway.

What would Thomas Jefferson have said?

Amen?

so, will the inaugural committee also knock Warren off the air?
and i fully agree with katymine (hi there dah’lin) that prayer is not appropriate as a part of this event. WE ARE NOT ALL CHRISTIANS!!!

What you talking about? I’m pretty sure that homosexuality is sexual conduct. What I know about his conduct is only that and nothing I say, do or think states or implies otherwise.

Thanks.

I am always glad when there is something I do not have to get “exercised” about….it seems hard for me to believe that Obama would extend the cordial hand of inclusion to the Rev. Robinson and then deliberately exclude or slight him. Just doesn’t make alot of sense to me….but, OTOH, have it your way.

This does not bode well.

If Warren is also excluded from the televised broadcast…well, at least that would make for a somewhat even-handed gesture. But I’m rather doubtful that we’re going to see that greasy bigot excised from the proceedings. I’ll believe it when I see it, and I’m not expecting to see it.

Obama is giving off more and more signs that we’re going to see nothing but Business As Usual with his administration, all the typical DLC triangulating bullshit. I hope it doesn’t come to that, but I fear it will, and this latest bit of ratfuckery isn’t exactly inspiring confidence.

I would like to see us focus on the ideas in the post and not be making assumptions about the motivations of other commenters – thank you.

Let’s all leave the personal out of this please.

From what I understand, they left out the pledge of allegiance also, commie bastards.

The level of stress conveyed in your postings just can’t be good for you. I’m sure that physicians you’ve consulted have explained that coronary problems require you to reduce stress.
I’m not currently in possession of any $3.00 bills and if I were, I wouldn’t try to lay them off on you.
Why don’t we try to disagree civilly?

Katymine, upon reading the headline here I got really pissed, but on reflecting (and having worked in the media biz) I tend to think your reading is correct. Time is money, even for the Inauguration.

Beyond that, it’s hard to imagine that even the most cautious version of Team Obama would be worried enough about Robinson giving a prayer on TV that they’d invite him and THEN do an about face and censor him…after all, he spoke in front of how many hundreds of thousands live in DC? If they were really worried about public perception, they wouldn’t have allowed that, either, right?

And how many times is this thing going to be watched online, or on special Franklin Mint Limited Edition Commemorative DVDs, or whatever? The HBO airing would seem to me to be almost a drop in the bucket in that light.

Could I be wrong? Maybe. Were there some on Team Obama who shed crocodile tears when Robinson’s invocation was lopped off the broadcast, no matter the reason? I’m sure. I did notice though that Obama included ‘Gay and Straight’ in the kumbaya section of his speech, and I don’t know how many times that’s happened at these things.

Hope I’m not 100% wrong.

That would certainly be my preference. I don’t think that I’ve introduced personal remarks in any of my comments. Unless you suggest that I allow personal comments without response, what are you saying?

Let’s do get the facts straight. Here’s what Bishop Robinson said himself about Obama’s people in the NYT:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..-memorial/

“They called up and said this has actually been in the works for a long time,” Bishop Robinson said, “and at the same time, we understand that people in the LGBT community have been somewhat wounded by this choice and it’s our hope that your selection will go a long way to heal those divides.”

and

“The event that Bishop Robinson will participate in is on Sunday, Jan. 18 – the first day of formal inaugural festivities in Washington. It will be broadcast later that night on HBO, which will provide a free
signal so that people who don’t have HBO can also watch it, said Linda Douglass, chief spokesperson for the presidential inaugural committee.”

So they stated unequivocally that this was meant as a sop for Warren, announced it WOULD be broadcast to prove that Obama is reaching out to us too and then they told HBO NOT to broadcast the prayer and scheduled it 5 minutes before the show went on air.

Why would gay people ever think that this was a deliberate decision to keep them out of the mainstream light and keep their voices hidden? It’s not like that ever happened before with Democrats. Oh wait….

And this isn’t something being dusted up only by hysterical, disgruntled queers in the blogosphere, as so many here seem to want to imply. The Episcopal Church blogs that I also visit are abuzz about this too, as are many newspaper editorials and columns, though they are focusing more on the fact that SHOCK! a GAY priest said a non-Christian prayer and mentioned GAyS! Oh noes!

I wonder if these same naysayers who are tut-tutting at us hysterical gays would take pause if, I don’t know, Obama kept making flub after flub by inviting pro-lifers or anti-semites or arch-conservatives and featured them over and over at every public event and nomination while telling the straight pro-choicers, straight pro-Israel lobby, and progressive straight liberal Democratic Christians that they are part of the club too! Just stand back there in that dark corner and be quiet, OK? That way we won’t offend our new bestest friends forever, the Republican conservative haters who want you all to die or at least be imprisoned. We need to reach out to them, after all, to prove we are here for everyone! (except the gays, of course)

Stop the frekin’ whining! If it had been a gay bashing minister you would want him speaking during the pre-show activities…or not speaking at all..

The show at the mounument/mall was for the people in attendance and they got to hear him speak…those listening on the radio, or on HBO, were also at the mercy of the media schedules…if HBO had decided to broadcast this speaker and others the program would have come on earlier..

And “heterosexuality” would be “sexual conduct?” Something to possibly give HBO reasons to cut the speech? Heterosexuality/Gay-ness really isn’t conduct. Please understand why someone like me might get a little prickly over the choice of words there. IMHO, sexual conduct/misconduct are terms reserved for more indiscriminate randy behavior.

By the way…you left out something that the Bishop said:

“e added, “In many ways it just proves that Barack Obama is exactly who he says he was and would be as president – which is someone who is casting a wide net that will include all Americans.””

Here is a link to the YouTube of pastor (reverend?) Robinson’s invocation. (4 mins)

This whole discussion started this morning with blaming HBO for cutting things and me trying to explain how HBO probably had nothing to do with it, which proved true.

I was happy that Rev. Roberson was going to give the invocation but still unsure when. If anyone has complaints take it up with the Obama Inauguration team. They were the ones who decided what was to be included in the broadcast and what was pre & post show which many of us out here in the hinterlands did not see. BUT he did speak and thousands saw and heard him.

PriscillaQOB@44 I feel this might be an offense to the episcopal church as well.

Did CSPAN cover this event?

That’s interesting. His comments read better than they sound.

I’m feeling at this point I have 2 choices: shut the F**k up and accept that no criticism of Obama is to be voiced no matter the circumstances or keep my opinions to myself.

Why not forgive the anti-gay McLurkin who preaches that gays can be “cured” by prayer — he’s for Obama; why can’t I be? So what if he wants me to be “cured”? It’s a big tent!

Same goes for Warren, who not only wants to cure me, but he is actively messing around in my church, The Episcopal Church, and supporting the few hundred homophobes who recently left the church (and tried to take the property with them) because they can’t worship beside those who accept gays; he supports Obama, why can’t I?

So what if Bishop Gene wasn’t heard by millions of Americans? They can see his prayer or read it on the Internet! At least those who HAVE the Internet available. Or a newspaper, maybe.

So what if Obama carefully appointed quotas of Asians, Hispanics (his team even said a new Hispanic needed to be appointed to replace Richardson, to be fair), Republicans, and Women but no gays to his cabinet?

So what if Obama keeps moving the goal post for ending DODT?

So what if Obama changes his position on marriage equality and refuses to talk about repealing DOMA?

How dare I care about “only” gay issues? How dare I question the transition? How dare I get upset?

Obama is playing poker, keeping his options open, etc. etc. etc. The presidential candidate and campaign who made an art form out of PR, the Internet, and carefully controlling public opinion during the election just made a few dozen mistakes RE: the gays. So what?

I’ll tell you so what. Like Selise posted on the thread below, quoting Dr. King:

“Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”

I know where I stand with Warren and his ilk. I guess I’m learning where I stand with progressive democrats now as well.

No, CSPAN was broadcasting a the live portion of progressive radio hosts with Stephanie Miller, Randi Rhodes, Bill Press, Ed Schultz and others…..

HBO exclusively was contracted to broadcast the concert at the Lincoln Memorial. (those of us who are home on disability know how to channel surf really well)

Citizen macaquerman:

The only thing that really gets me “stressed” is phony civility from pseudo-sophisticated wing nuts…so if yer really concerned about my health and well being please refrain from responding to any of my comments. I ain’t all that smart and I sure ain’t rich enough not ta care what’s goin on in the world but I DO have a pretty good shit detector inherited from my Grampa Ole and for my peace of mind please share your insights and sensitivity to personal health with someone who is too dumb ta know better.

Personally It’s the religious hysteria which bothers me most (during what is a constitutional based celebration – event).

That said, thank you, You finally demonstrated most conclusively the shunning which took place. If they told HBO not to do something.. I don’t think it’s such a good idea to blame HBO in this situation.

While I (a straight, atheist, older woman) have no personal dog in this fight, I do want to point out that many said the mic didn’t work, so the people attending the event didn’t get to hear Bishop Robinson either.

In my most humble opinion, I would appreciate it if people would calm down, quit hurling accusations at Obama, HBO and each other.

Yes, we CAN do that much.

Expressing an opinion is fine…but a “knee jerk” opinion is generally lacking something…

Look…this event was longer than the HBO broadcast…the minister, I believe, was the first speaker. It seems a bit suspicious to me that HBO places the blame on the Inauguration planners when they could have started their broadcast early enough to include the Bishop. But hey, I have trouble understanding why anyone felt compelled to open this event with a prayer.

The sound system was horrid for the first couple of “performers”…including the Bishop…so do you blame Obama for that too?

Yes.If it’s not conduct,it’d be mental process. If you want to find offense I can’t stop you. But I’m not offering any.

No please don’t shut up. Even if we don’t know the full story of HBO/inauguration committee, your instincts are probably right given past history. The whole HBO-doesn’t-bear-responsiblity-for-exclusion doesn’t seem right to me. In librarianship, it is recognized that censorship can manifest itself in all sorts of ways.

The amount of religion that has cheeped into our government…. the prayer breakfasts, nation day of prayer, and I know there is a whole bunch more but space them out because it irritates the shit out of me and these events grew exponentially under BushCo…..

IF someone has a problem with DOMA then contact your congressman and/or Senator and work to have it repealed. If you have a problem with Don’t ask/don’t tell THEN contact your congresscritter and lobby to have the repealed…… DO SOMETHING beside whine.

Okay. You don’t comment to me and I won’t comment to you. Deal?

I don’t think that I’ve introduced personal remarks in any of my comments.

What’s this?

Dear NFT, try not to freak out on an hourly basis.

I found your use of the term “homosexual” to be thoughtless.

What’s your position on Prop 8?

OT, Rock-on Norske.

Bullseye.

Amen to that!

Full equality. I don’t know how to say homosexual without saying it.

I didn’t introduce it. See NFT @11. That’s what I was responding to.

I suggest you find a mobile TV production somewhere and ask to watch. First there is a legal contract with the broadcaster, then the TV crew have instructions to start the broadcast at X time and since this was HBO no breaks and broadcast to Y time. If there was a failure of the audio then it would be the event audio team/equipment that failed not the TV crew. Then there is the question if there was editing or did they just “do it live”, was there a 7 second delay for profanity and who was in charge of what was included and what was excluded in the 2.5 hours of HBO contracted time.

Might want to read this before getting too far out in front on PEBO Obama, The Crawford Torture Admission & The Army Field Manual Lie.

I supported Barack in the general, but we need to keep working to pull Democrats back towards the middle.

let me see if i have this straight (pardon the pun)…..

our glbt sisters and brothers get thrown under the bus again. it’s not clear who do the throwing though – was it hbo? was it obamaco? something else?

we have some evidence, but perhaps not enough….

so what do we do? we argue about whether we should be defending hbo or obamaco while our brothers and sisters are asking us for support.

fwiw, here’s what i think – hbo and obama don’t need our protection. they don’t need our solidarity. they can take care of themselves for a couple of days while we sort this one out. but our sisters and brothers do need our support and solidarity and they are asking us for it. please, let’s not ignore them or worse.

Huh?

Norske doesn’t mention it in 11?

The first one to use it is you in 35.

Thank you selise.

Well said, as per usual.

One of the cornerstones of this community was FISA and the GLBT communities gave us full support on that. We have to support them.

I love and value your comments, Norske.

Ditto, well said.

Sorry for the confusion. NFT@11 references the personal BS.
The homosexuality remark is me trying to tell mui1@25 that I was hoping that the prayer wasn’t excluded because of it’s author’s homosexuality. (me @16)

Identity is the word used. Sexual identity: heterosexual, gay. Gender identity: male, female. and so on . . .

Who is on the PIC, anyway? I can’t quickly find out, which gets me wondering–are they were official Washington?

Defining gay orientation as “sexual conduct” implies a lack of understanding of the broad nature of love, relationship, culture, sensual/sexual comfort, sophistication and warmth involving in being gay. It denies
95% of the context and content of being gay.

I am really not “out in front” on Obama. I haven’t liked some of his actions, going back to his vote on the FISA amendment. I just get so weary of the poo flinging that still permeates many of the comments here. A lot of heat, not a lot of light.

Katymine, you have explained the process clearly over two threads, many thanks, but the discord continues apace. I think Robinson’s exclusion sucks. But then, I would prefer that there be no prayers of any kind, televised or otherwise.

Gay.You know every community– whether its black, gay,or women–have a language that is preferable, and certain words used in certain contexts can be irritating, if not downright inflammatory, often for good reasons. Would you go onto a foul-mouthed feminist blog, and say, “what’s up females?” And then say: I say it like I see it? Probably not.

My apologies.

I’m a big tent guy. I really don’t want to play the third-party card.

marymccurnin @78. Yes, it does sound like identity is being reduced to a function. And just one function at that.

Beautifully put.

Well said, thank you.

No problem.

DIGG is open. (why did it take until the 86th comment to get this story on DIGG?

FYI, the Inaugural Committee says they wanted Bishop Robinson’s remarks televised and that this was a mistake. Here’s their statement, as presented on AMERICABlog:

“”We had always intended and planned for Rt. Rev. Robinson’s invocation to be included in the televised portion of yesterday’s program. We regret the error in executing this plan – but are gratified that hundreds of thousands of people who gathered on the mall heard his eloquent prayer for our nation that was a fitting start to our event.” — PIC communications director Josh Earnest “

I’m OK with using gay instead of homosexual. During the course of this discussion, I’ve polled the other three members of my household. None of them were offended by my terms. Two of them moved here because Prop 8 cast doubt upon the validity of their marriage.

Are they a married gay couple?

Does anyone suspect that, just maybe, the microphone being off was an accident? They do happen. That it was an accident is probable because it came on during the end of the prayer. Some of you need to quit victimizing yourselves. You does not do you or your character justice when you always try to be a victim. You look stupid.

You betcha.

And both them ladies engage in homosexool conduct. Unlike me and the missus.

UH, they did not. The pledge was televised.
Nice try, but FAIL.

You’ll see just how progressive the Democrats are when they’re all on their backs, legs in the air, like they were for Bush.

Complete fawning acceptance of whatever crap is dished out to them with a sprinkling of “Let’s just wait and see what he does” added for good measure, yessirree!

They are not alpha dogs, those dems.

You might also want to ask them if they’re okay with being called “females.” I know I’m not.

Did I refer to you as such? As I don’t know you, I wouldn’t assume you to be such.
How do you wish to be addressed?

Using someone’s name is often useful.

Thank you, Fern.
As mui1 had just finished informing me that mui1 didn’t like being called female, my question was really addressed to mui1.

HBO will be peddling an Obama Presidency Video. The best revenge would be to make one that excludes HBO, includes the good Bishop and excludes Warren.

I’m not gay, but have too many friends who are and as a result of this outrage, I’ll never buy an HBO product, again.

Last I remember Dianne Feinstein is Prez of the inaugural committe.

Now that the Obama inaugural team has apologized for the slight, I will offer my own apology. It’s nice to see someone do right and I appreciate that. I still think Obama needs some better glbt advisors to keep these errors and flubs from happening so regularly but good on his team and good on HBO.

“The officials who planned Sunday’s inaugural music celebration, We Are One, have apologized for a error that resulted in excluding the invocation by openly gay Episcopal bishop, the Rev. Gene Robinson, from the televised portion of the program. They also say the bishop’s prayer may be broadcast on the big screens before Tuesday’s inauguration program begins. [snip] There is talk that Robinson’s invocation will be shown early tomorrow and the inauguration committee may post video of his prayer on its channel within the video-sharing Web site YouTube. But the committee has not yet confirmed that to me.”

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/…..-apol.html

Female as a noun. But carry on. The more openly disingenous you are, the more you underscore the original point.

I don’t think you have to offer any apology.

Please do not mistake bemusement for disingenuity, I spent much time and energy yesterday trying to apologize for a lack of understanding that you displayed. I can not overcome your desire to take offense and to give offense.
My original remark deploring exclusion based on “homosexual conduct” was construed in some way to mean homosexual MISconduct.
If you wish to revel on some throne from which you sit in judgment, well go ahead and sit on it.