*succumbs to a gigglefit*

My understanding is that atheists don’t believe in God, while churches (and their clergy) by virtue of being a church do.

on the second point of your statement, your understanding is just wrong. it may be that all clergy in your church believe in god – but that’s not true of all churches, including mine.

My understanding is that atheists don’t believe in God, while churches (and their clergy) by virtue of being a church do. To me it is odd, if not oxymoronic that an atheist (one who lacks belief in a god or gods) is a minister in a “church” is an organization specifically for the worship of a god or gods. Like soup implies liquid, church implies a divine something another– be it the Other or the Self…

On a side note, I strongly hold in the separation of church and state and actually as of late been thinking about the tax exempt status of religious organizations–whether that is a reasonable thing (especially since the IRS allows those in some religious organziations certain deductions for religious services, while denying the same deductions for others as in Sklar v. IRS).

I am wondering if there are recordings, either taped or in print of oaths of office taken by presidents prior to FDR, and why “so help me god” was added to the original(article II section 1) in the Constitution:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.

I could do without the “so help me God” in the oath, but it’s Obama’s day and if he wants to say it, go for it. One day there may be an atheist or agnostic elected, and the ceremony will reflect that.

atheist who is oxymormoically a minister of the Universal Life Church

if you are saying that it is contradictory for an atheist to be a minister or belong to a church, that is just wrong as a matter of fact.

i know nothing about the Universal Life Church (it may be for real or a joke for all i know). but i do know a bit about UU congregations (having belonged to a few). at least half of the people who go to my local UU church are atheists or agnostic. and here’s the statement from the national website:

Beliefs Within Our Faith

Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion that encompasses many faith traditions. Unitarian Universalists include people who identify as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, and others. As there is no official Unitarian Universalist creed, Unitarian Universalists are free to search for truth on many paths.

To quote the Rev. Marta Flanagan, “We uphold the free search for truth. We will not be bound by a statement of belief. We do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed. We say ours is a non-creedal religion. Ours is a free faith.”

Although we uphold shared principles, individual Unitarian Universalists have varied beliefs about everything from scripture to rituals to God.