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	<title>Comments on: Saddleback Site Removes Anti-Gay Statements, Warren Lies to Congregation.</title>
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		<title>By: reader</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2008/12/22/saddleback-site-removes-anti-gay-statements-warren-lies-to-congregation/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2008/12/22/saddleback-site-removes-anti-gay-statements-warren-lies-to-congregation/#comment-119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There are 4 ~ four!~ vidoes in Pastor Rick’s newsletter to his church members.  Why do you need 4 videos to explain yourself?  Wow.  It’s all aobut him and he keeps on lying as if lying doesn’t matter.  I really didn’t expect more from him ALREADY!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And just what part of his harangues are ”disagreeing without being disagreeable?”  He’s disagreeable and doesn’t know it, I guess. He doesn’t have a clue in spite of Obama giving him this ”opportunity” as Biden described it last night on Larry King.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are 4 ~ four!~ vidoes in Pastor Rick’s newsletter to his church members.  Why do you need 4 videos to explain yourself?  Wow.  It’s all aobut him and he keeps on lying as if lying doesn’t matter.  I really didn’t expect more from him ALREADY!</p>
<p>And just what part of his harangues are ”disagreeing without being disagreeable?”  He’s disagreeable and doesn’t know it, I guess. He doesn’t have a clue in spite of Obama giving him this ”opportunity” as Biden described it last night on Larry King.</p>
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		<title>By: yellowdog jim</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2008/12/22/saddleback-site-removes-anti-gay-statements-warren-lies-to-congregation/comment-page-1/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>yellowdog jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2008/12/22/saddleback-site-removes-anti-gay-statements-warren-lies-to-congregation/#comment-117</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Warren also has his own fundamentalist christian detractors.&lt;br /&gt;
Warren is selling his “Purpose Driven Life” program as the means of financial salvation for deteriorating church membership:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purpose_Driven_Life&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....riven_Life&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;What on Earth Am I Here For?&lt;br /&gt;
Purpose #1: You Were Planned for God’s Pleasure (Worship)&lt;br /&gt;
Purpose #2: You Were Formed for God’s Family (Fellowship)&lt;br /&gt;
Purpose #3: You Were Created to Become Like Christ (Discipleship)&lt;br /&gt;
Purpose #4: You Were Shaped for Serving God (Ministry)&lt;br /&gt;
Purpose #5: You Were Made for a Mission (Mission)&lt;br /&gt;
Each of these is meant to build on the previous - that is, Warren wants the reader to see that each purpose is sequential and foundational for the next step.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Criticisms&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One complaint from a Lutheran perspective is that Warren fails to present the evangelical Christian gospel accurately–failing to accurately represent the nature of sin, repentance and hell, as well as the blood sacrifice of God’s son Jesus as the means to be forgiven by God for sins and which allows man to have a relationship with God.[5] Some critics accuse him of absolving his readers of moral responsibility by making Satan into an all-pervasive godlike figure contrary to both orthodox theology and psychological soundness,[6] and some contend that when citing Scripture, Warren jumps from one Bible version to another, cherry-picking whichever paraphrase or translation supports whatever point he attempts to convey.[7] The practice of using translations selectively is defended by others.[8] Yet another common complaint pertains to Warren’s statement that “Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took forty days”[9]–a claim which critics affirm to be both overly broad and contradicted by Scripture.[10]&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i feel like the lutherans may have something there.&lt;br /&gt;
and there is a ton of stuff about PDL creating adversarial confrontations in congregations all over the place:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/purpose_driven_splits_congregants.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.moriel.org/articles.....egants.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/emailfromrw.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.lighthousetrailsres.....fromrw.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=179&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=179&amp;more=1&amp;c=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://lighthousetrailsresearc.....1&amp;c=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.religionnewsblog.com/15837/rick-warrens-strategy-for-church-growth-splits-congregants&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.religionnewsblog.co.....ongregants&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.challies.com/archives/articles/church-growth/veneration-gap.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1869&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1869&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it would seem to these critics of Rick Warren that the &lt;strong&gt;Purpose&lt;/strong&gt; that is being &lt;strong&gt;Driven&lt;/strong&gt; for these churches is &lt;strong&gt;money&lt;/strong&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;
How do they get more parishioners (to get more money) to keep their churches from going under?&lt;br /&gt;
these writers who are antagonistic to PDL make no never mind to me, i just cite them to show that there are Christians opposed to Rick Warrens’ Purpose Driven Life style.&lt;br /&gt;
Lots of them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This dude makes friends all over the place.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren also has his own fundamentalist christian detractors.<br />
Warren is selling his “Purpose Driven Life” program as the means of financial salvation for deteriorating church membership:<br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Purpose_Driven_Life" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T&#8230;..riven_Life</a></p>
<blockquote><p>What on Earth Am I Here For?<br />
Purpose #1: You Were Planned for God’s Pleasure (Worship)<br />
Purpose #2: You Were Formed for God’s Family (Fellowship)<br />
Purpose #3: You Were Created to Become Like Christ (Discipleship)<br />
Purpose #4: You Were Shaped for Serving God (Ministry)<br />
Purpose #5: You Were Made for a Mission (Mission)<br />
Each of these is meant to build on the previous &#8211; that is, Warren wants the reader to see that each purpose is sequential and foundational for the next step.</p>
<p>Criticisms</p>
<p>One complaint from a Lutheran perspective is that Warren fails to present the evangelical Christian gospel accurately–failing to accurately represent the nature of sin, repentance and hell, as well as the blood sacrifice of God’s son Jesus as the means to be forgiven by God for sins and which allows man to have a relationship with God.[5] Some critics accuse him of absolving his readers of moral responsibility by making Satan into an all-pervasive godlike figure contrary to both orthodox theology and psychological soundness,[6] and some contend that when citing Scripture, Warren jumps from one Bible version to another, cherry-picking whichever paraphrase or translation supports whatever point he attempts to convey.[7] The practice of using translations selectively is defended by others.[8] Yet another common complaint pertains to Warren’s statement that “Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took forty days”[9]–a claim which critics affirm to be both overly broad and contradicted by Scripture.[10]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>i feel like the lutherans may have something there.<br />
and there is a ton of stuff about PDL creating adversarial confrontations in congregations all over the place:<br /><a href="http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/purpose_driven_splits_congregants.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.moriel.org/articles&#8230;..egants.htm</a><br /><a href="http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/emailfromrw.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.lighthousetrailsres&#8230;..fromrw.htm</a><br /><a href="http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=179&amp;more=1&amp;c=1" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=179&amp;more=1&amp;c=1" rel="nofollow">http://lighthousetrailsresearc&#8230;..1&amp;c=1</a><br /><a href="http://www.religionnewsblog.com/15837/rick-warrens-strategy-for-church-growth-splits-congregants" rel="nofollow">http://www.religionnewsblog.co&#8230;..ongregants</a><br /><a href="http://www.challies.com/archives/articles/church-growth/veneration-gap.php" rel="nofollow"></a><br /><a href="http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1869" rel="nofollow">http://www.getreligion.org/?p=1869</a></p>
<p>it would seem to these critics of Rick Warren that the <strong>Purpose</strong> that is being <strong>Driven</strong> for these churches is <strong>money</strong>:<br />
How do they get more parishioners (to get more money) to keep their churches from going under?<br />
these writers who are antagonistic to PDL make no never mind to me, i just cite them to show that there are Christians opposed to Rick Warrens’ Purpose Driven Life style.<br />
Lots of them.</p>
<p>This dude makes friends all over the place.</p>
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		<title>By: cobernicus</title>
		<link>http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2008/12/22/saddleback-site-removes-anti-gay-statements-warren-lies-to-congregation/comment-page-1/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>cobernicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lafiga.firedoglake.com/2008/12/22/saddleback-site-removes-anti-gay-statements-warren-lies-to-congregation/#comment-111</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Lisa,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m sure Pastor Rick doesn’t believe he is lying.  He just gave a “&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botdmsQilnU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cliff Clavin&lt;/a&gt;” answer.  When he used incest, pedophilia, polygamy and same-sex marriage in the same sentence, he meant us to think, “&lt;em&gt;What are four activities that do not correspond to the Biblical definition of marriage?&lt;/em&gt;,”  not “&lt;em&gt;What are four practices that I consider an abomination?&lt;/em&gt;“&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, the Bible has instances of incest, pedophilia, polygamy and homosexuality, but the Pastor has edited those parts out, just as he edited the Church web page.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa,</p>
<p>I’m sure Pastor Rick doesn’t believe he is lying.  He just gave a “<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=botdmsQilnU" rel="nofollow">Cliff Clavin</a>” answer.  When he used incest, pedophilia, polygamy and same-sex marriage in the same sentence, he meant us to think, “<em>What are four activities that do not correspond to the Biblical definition of marriage?</em>,”  not “<em>What are four practices that I consider an abomination?</em>“</p>
<p>Of course, the Bible has instances of incest, pedophilia, polygamy and homosexuality, but the Pastor has edited those parts out, just as he edited the Church web page.</p>
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